Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

Dave D,

NYU is widely considered a better school than Georgetown.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

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Dave D,

NYU is widely considered a better school than Georgetown.

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By...?

Not US News.

Like I said, the people I know who went there said it was easy. I also tend to look down on state/big schools generally because they are easy, it's a fact. If you're the first kid in your family to go to college and you can only afford a state school, then that's fine. But given a choice, I'm always going to choose the small private because I know you're going to be challenged there far more.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

FWIW NYU has a far better reputation internationally than Georgetown or at least it does in my neck of the woods

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

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it seems to me that people want to go to NYU just to be in NYC, which really shouldn't be what college is about.

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It's still relatively unclear to me why you have this opinion on in what way you're qualified to comment on the issue, but that's not really the point. More importantly, I think it's fairly presumptuous of you to tell someone else what college ought to be about for them.

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College is about learning and getting ready for your future, where you live to me really shouldn't be a big part of that. If OP really wants to live in NYC, he can do that when he graduates. IMO where you go to school really isn't that important.

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Some people would consider living in an urban, exposed environment a learning experience that prepares them for the future. While you might disagree, that really does nothing to suggest that those you feel that way are wrong. Maybe he can live in NYC after he graduates, but how can you possibly know or guarantee that? He can live there now and I doubt he can predict what his life is going to be like in four years as well as he can predict four months. The fact is that it's not just as simple as "he can do that later." Again, you've been very clear about your opinion that location isn't an important factor in choosing a school. Unfortunately it makes little sense to me why you keep repeating it since it's just an anecdote with no reasoning provided.

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Heh, most important city in America.

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This is about the level of response I expected. Feel free to reply with why you think DC/LA/Boston/Chicago/Tuscon is the most important city in America.

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top 20 or so really are all the same

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I haven't looked at college rankings in years but this strikes me as ridiculous. I just opened up the us news rankings to see what schools were where and I noticed that NYU and Georgetown were 24 and 23, respectively. Keep in mind, I have no opinion on which school is better and I know almost nothing about Georgetown, but this was a lot closer to a difference of only 10 (what you said constitutes comparable schools) than I expected given what you've said about the clear choice of Georgetown over NYU.

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I think NYU is even where it is because it gets too much of a bump from being in NYC

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Can you at least admit that you might value this less than some people? Average people, even? I think Georgetown gets too much of a bump for having a good politics program. Politics isn't important to me and college isn't about politics. I think you're confusing the issue of which school is better and which one is better for you.

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You're saying that NYU would have better connections than GTown for when he graduates?

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Obviously this is what I was saying.

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I think we know that NYU might have better business connections, but otherwise...umm no. Georgetown is an elite school with lots of prestigious alumni

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Couple things here. (1)Business connections tend to be pretty important to a lot of people (2)I know you hate considering the city around a school, since that's "not what college is about," but it's relevant here. Probably more relevant than alumni in terms of networking. I know maybe 10 people that graduated from NYU before I was here, so prestigious alumni has never really affected me one way or another. However, I know tons of people who live/work in New York City that never had anything to do with NYU. I never really understood why people talked about alumni as though it had a big effect on connections. Are other people getting email addresses of of alumni newsletters and emailing people just because you went to the same school? That's never really made sense to me. I guess if you go into a job interview and the guy went to the sames school as you that's cool. Even in that case though, NYU has got to have some sort of benefit just by having more graduates. You're more likely to run into an alum from a school of 35,000 than a school of 5,000, and the surrounding city has always been a better source of contacts for me than mostly unconnected alumni.

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NYU might as well be a state school. It's just not comparable (except obviously NYU will have some better connections in NYC, obviously).

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I'm not really sure what you mean by "NYU might as well be a state school," especially given that this seems to be in regard to networking contacts. Can you just clarify how you know anything about what sort of contacts people make at different schools? I know you said you know people who went to NYU, but I know people at lots of schools and I wouldn't feel even remotely qualified to talk about what sort of connections were possible. I made the general assumption that NYU would have more to offer in that area because New York City has more people/money/jobs than anywhere else in the country and that's ultimately what these connections are all about. It's still very unclear to me what your reasoning is for anything you've said.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

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I also tend to look down on state/big schools generally because they are easy, it's a fact. If you're the first kid in your family to go to college and you can only afford a state school, then that's fine.

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Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. NYU is neither affordable, nor a state school.

Also, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but I think it bears repeating that different people have different values. For many people a smaller school would be a negative, not a positive.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

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it seems to me that people want to go to NYU just to be in NYC, which really shouldn't be what college is about.

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It's still relatively unclear to me why you have this opinion on in what way you're qualified to comment on the issue, but that's not really the point.

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neither of us is really "qualified" to talk about it, we're not really experts are we, we're just giving opinions. That is my opinion, that lots of people probably pick NYU just because it's in NYC and they want to mess around for 4 years in NYC. It's like the other thread about people choosing USC over Yale, one of the big reasons people said USC was "omg hot chix" and to a large extent "omg socal." Those are reasons you choose to go on vacation somewhere, or maybe even live all things being equal career wise. However, banging [censored] isn't a reason to go to college, at least not for people serious about acedemics, like it seems OP is. If he were asking where is the better party school because he only cares about partyhing, that would be something else, but he's asking about which is the better ALL AROUND school. My point is that location is only one factor, and it shouldn't be the overriding one, and that I believe NYU derives much (too much) of it's ranking/prestige etc from the fact that it's in NYC. It is my philosophy of education that it's about what you're taught, not where you are, in large part. Also, OP isn't from Mid America somewhere, he's from DC, a big metropolitan area. I think a lot of his possible learing "big city life" goes out the window right there.

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More importantly, I think it's fairly presumptuous of you to tell someone else what college ought to be about for them.


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We're all discussing opinions here aren't we? OP asked for advice and I'm giving mine. It's hard to do that without making some sort of value judgements about what college is, or should be, or at the very least i should give my view so as to make it clear where I'm coming from so that OP can read my opinion better for what it is. Lying/ommitting/pretending like you dont have any biases defeats the point in this regard.

Also, I doubt OP has any idea what college is really about at this stage in his life, even if he thinks he does. I'm giving my sage wisdom on the matter, as a somewhat recent college graduate. Hiding in skeptisim and relativity ("we can't tell him", "he has to find out for himself", "there's no way to know" etc) really doesn't help OP here.


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College is about learning and getting ready for your future, where you live to me really shouldn't be a big part of that. If OP really wants to live in NYC, he can do that when he graduates. IMO where you go to school really isn't that important.

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Some people would consider living in an urban, exposed environment a learning experience that prepares them for the future. While you might disagree, that really does nothing to suggest that those you feel that way are wrong.


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I've tried to make it clear that I understand there are many who feel this way, and I think they might be right to a point. However, it is my opinion that that advantage is vastly overrated. This is always going to be an opinion question, and there's not really any way for the OP to figure this out without reading about the issue, maybe. Again, I doubt OP really can even tell for himself now, but whatever.

Also, one added point to this, I went to college in a medium sized city (not a college town, it really was a bubble) and now go to law school in a big city where I grew up. I'm in a unique position to be able to tell OP these things because, to a large extent, I've seen both sides of the coin. Law school is different from college, and actually law schools in big cities do have an advantage because a lot of it is about getting experiance and listing on your resume where you've worked and such and there's just more oppurtunities for that in the city, whereas college is more about your GPA, what classes you took, etc. You can always say "the city is my classroom", and again, that's true in part, but it is my opinion that that aspect is overrated. The reality is that it's very easy to get distracted in a big city, and get caught up doing things that you don't need to go to college for. Granted, GTown is also in a big city, but it's not NYC in it's distraction capabilities (at least as far as I can tell), and Georgetown, from what I gather seems like a fairly insular place in that respect.

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Maybe he can live in NYC after he graduates, but how can you possibly know or guarantee that? He can live there now and I doubt he can predict what his life is going to be like in four years as well as he can predict four months.


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So what you're saying is, he can't know where he'll be in 4 years, so he should go live in NYC because he doesn't know. That's circular logic. The reality is that I'm sure he'd get hooked up with something at Georgetown in NYC if he wanted to in 4 years. Also, I believe the Georgetown name on his resume will get him jobs in NYC in 4 years if he still wants to do that. Saying "he doesn't know what will happen in 4 years" is the kind of thing you think about when you're planning what you're going to do with the year or two between college and law school, or in the few months before a job starts, not when choosing a college. Choosing a college is about the oppurtunities you're giving yourself, and choosing the place that's going to give you the most oppurtunities, for the OP I believe this is Georgetown and stand by that.

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Heh, most important city in America.

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This is about the level of response I expected. Feel free to reply with why you think DC/LA/Boston/Chicago/Tuscon is the most important city in America.


Yeah I guess sarcastic humor is too much for you. I was also getting at the fact that I live in Boston. It's a little presumptuous to say it's the greatest city in the world isn't it? Like many things, I believe that certain cities are on a tier with each other, and there isn't one that's greater than others, each has it's own advantages and disadvantages. Ligthen up.

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top 20 or so really are all the same

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I haven't looked at college rankings in years but this strikes me as ridiculous. I just opened up the us news rankings to see what schools were where and I noticed that NYU and Georgetown were 24 and 23, respectively. Keep in mind, I have no opinion on which school is better and I know almost nothing about Georgetown, but this was a lot closer to a difference of only 10 (what you said constitutes comparable schools) than I expected given what you've said about the clear choice of Georgetown over NYU.


For the record, the difference is 23 and 34. I guess I wasn't clear about that, what I was basically trying to say is that within the top schools, I look at it as the first 20 are roughly the same quality, the next 10 are the same, the next 10 are the same, etc. There's a few exceptions, and it's a rough estimate, but the point is still there, that NYU and Georgetown are seperated by a fairly significant margin. Especially when considering all the "ties", there's more than just 10 schools seperating them.


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I think NYU is even where it is because it gets too much of a bump from being in NYC

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Can you at least admit that you might value this less than some people?


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Yes, some people definitely value going to a party school over all else, or "I have to be in Malibu" or "I have to be in SoCal", but those aren't good reasons for going to a school. That's my point.
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Average people, even?


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I think the average, intelligent, competitive student considers location (other than general geographic regions, like NE, Mid Atlantic, SE) as pretty minor factors. Otherwise you'd have people passing up Columbia for Maryland or something.

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I think Georgetown gets too much of a bump for having a good politics program. Politics isn't important to me and college isn't about politics. I think you're confusing the issue of which school is better and which one is better for you.


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Evidently it is important for him because the OP applied to, and got into, a very competitive politics program. He never mentioned business as an interest. Getting a bump for being acedemically "good" is better than getting a bump for where you happen to be located. I think Georgetown probably gets a bump for the fact that it's DC as well, there are so many opinions/viewpoints in that city, and it's right on the North/South dividing line (ok NOVA is the line, but whatever).

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You're saying that NYU would have better connections than GTown for when he graduates?

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Obviously this is what I was saying.

I think we know that NYU might have better business connections, but otherwise...umm no. Georgetown is an elite school with lots of prestigious alumni

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Couple things here. (1)Business connections tend to be pretty important to a lot of people


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See above.

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(2)I know you hate considering the city around a school, since that's "not what college is about," but it's relevant here. Probably more relevant than alumni in terms of networking.


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What it comes down to really is 'what's going to give me the most future options', not 'where can I have the most fun'. yes, I know that being in NYC and the advantages aren't just "fun" based, but lets be honest, that's what a lot of them are.
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I never really understood why people talked about alumni as though it had a big effect on connections. Are other people getting email addresses of of alumni newsletters and emailing people just because you went to the same school?


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Here's one example: Fraternities. Your fraternity has an alumni event, lots of sucessful alumni come out. You talk to one in a field you're interested in, and he gives you his card. You've got a huge leg up over all the other applicants when it's time to apply for jobs. Aditionally, I think the name/prestige recognition on the resume will be better from Georgetown than NYU. I think NYU is a lot more regional, and everyone's heard of Georgetown, if only because of basketball recently. Additionally, schools maintain databases of alumni that call up and say "this summer I have room for 2 interns, feed me some" and such. Job fairs, stuff like that. Also its the type of people who go there. It is my opinion that the people you make friends with at Georgetown are more likely to have sucessful parents/friends that will hook you up in the future. It's just networking.
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Even in that case though, NYU has got to have some sort of benefit just by having more graduates.


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Only in NYC. I just don't think the name recognition is there outside of NYC. Also, more graduates doesn't mean they're quality graduates. I think Georgetown simply has more quality graduates.


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NYU might as well be a state school. It's just not comparable (except obviously NYU will have some better connections in NYC, obviously).

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I'm not really sure what you mean by "NYU might as well be a state school," especially given that this seems to be in regard to networking contacts. Can you just clarify how you know anything about what sort of contacts people make at different schools? I know you said you know people who went to NYU, but I know people at lots of schools and I wouldn't feel even remotely qualified to talk about what sort of connections were possible. I made the general assumption that NYU would have more to offer in that area because New York City has more people/money/jobs than anywhere else in the country and that's ultimately what these connections are all about. It's still very unclear to me what your reasoning is for anything you've said.

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That was talking much more about the quality of the education. It's my impression that the big private schools are basically party schools that simply aren't that challenging acedemically. How challenging the acedemics are is my primary concern.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

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I also tend to look down on state/big schools generally because they are easy, it's a fact. If you're the first kid in your family to go to college and you can only afford a state school, then that's fine.

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Again, I have no idea what you're talking about. NYU is neither affordable, nor a state school.

Also, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse but I think it bears repeating that different people have different values. For many people a smaller school would be a negative, not a positive.

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Please re-read the point, it should become clear.


Ok just to summarize, what I mean there is that big/state schools are easy. They arent as acedemically challenging. I made an exception for people that don't have many options, that I don't fault them for choosing an easy school. However, OP has options, so he shouldn't choose the easy school.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

imo, once you get past the top 5 or so schools academically, the primary concern should be enjoying college - atmosphere, location, etc. dave, you may be correct for someone heading to law school, but undergrad is about way more than academics.

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

Dave D,

I was going off general consensus with people I've talked to etc. It seems US News doesn't corroborate. I wanna say NYU was much higher when I started college 4 years ago. Now they are 34th which isn't good. Any ideas why?

Re: COLLEGE CHOICE----HELP
 

NYU's specialty schools (stern, tisch, etc) are much more highly regarded than its college of arts and sciences or whatever they call it.