Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

MJ didn't play with a better player on his team through most of his career. Kobe's personality played a big part in Shaq's transfer, how can that be overrated?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

Kobe is in a class by himself, then there is a class that is empty, and then there is the class w/ wade, james, agent zero, melo, dirk, duncan, nash.

Also, I don't think that Lebron will ever reach his full potential, I think he will be very good, but not the 2nd coming of magic, like he could become. He just doesn't seem to have the want to be his best. Anyone else feel this way?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but Nash is a winner and single handedly turns all of his teammates into All Stars. What has Kobe ever won?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think personality or lack thereof is overrated; MJ rode everyone on the Bulls mercilessly.

[/ QUOTE ]

MJ didn't play with a better player on his team ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also want to add Kobe shats all over Nash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't they completely different types of players?

Kobe's supporting cast must be dismal if all the #1 player in the league can do is muster up a 6, 7, or 8th seed every year. The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

I'm also surprised Kobe's putrid personality doesn't bother anyone. I submit that personality absolutely matters if you're 'trying to pick a player to build a team around'

[/ QUOTE ]

his supporting cast is so horrendous that, coupled with odom being out for long stretches this year....kobe should be the MVP for even having this team in the playoffs in the west

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

Its tough to rank perimeter players and post players together, so I'll separate the two. These rankings are in no particular order, just tiered.

Tier #1 perimeter players
Kobe
Wade
Nash
Just missed out: Lebron, Pierce


Tier #1 post players
Garnett
Duncan
Just missed out: Amare, Yao, Dwight, Bosh, Shaq


Dirk is also tier #1 but I wasn't sure which group to include him in.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The thing is though, his supporting cast isn't that dismal.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's worse than dismal. So bad that Smush Parker still plays significant minutes and Luke Walton is a critical player on the team.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no clue why every NBA thread in here turns into a STeve Nash thread, but I would like to point out that before coming to Phoenix a guy like Diaw was considered no better than Parker/Walton. And Tim Thomas now that hes left Phoenix isn't doing anything at all.

Nash and Kobe are very different players, so its tough to compare the two, and its tough to say who is the better overall player. Both are phenomenal though.

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

I'll just ask this here, since this is turning into the Steve Nash Thread Du Jour.

In football, players often have success because they are put into the right system (see: Trotter in Philadelphia). Likewise, players can fail if they are put into the wrong system (see: Trotter in Washington). Does this happen in basketball? A big part of the pro-Nash argument is that he makes all the players around him better. How much of that success, if any, is due to Phoenix's system/coaching?

Re: Where does Kobe rank among NBA superstars?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't think that Lebron will ever reach his full potential, I think he will be very good, but not the 2nd coming of magic, like he could become. He just doesn't seem to have the want to be his best. Anyone else feel this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes. I think this "drive" and "wanting to be the best" are pretty important factors here. a large reason why MJ was the best was b/c he was so ruthless and determined and abhored losing at anything. Ditto for guys like Larry and Magic. I just don't get that sense from Lebron, who seems to float through some games. I think you either have this drive or you don't, and for various reasons it's probably harder for a guy like Lebron who was annoted the King when he was in high school, and has had his crew and the industry telling him how awesome he was through all his formative years. This has got to have an affect on him.

MJ, as awesome as he was, was never considered to be the 2nd coming like Lebron. he was the #3 pick in the NBA draft, while Lebron was considered the best #1 pick in 20 years or whatever.

even through the begining of MJ's NBA career people just considered him to be a 1 dimensional player who would never win b/c he didn't pass enough, rebound, etc. he drove himself and continually improved.