Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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You can argue that the government should do X because it will result in Y and Z shows that it might work. Then later you can look at a statistically insignificant sample (one) and re-evaluate X, Y, and Z.

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I was going to consider and respond to your thoughts but then I realized that a sample size of one post is a statistically insignificant representation of your thoughts on the matter.

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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You can argue that the government should do X because it will result in Y and Z shows that it might work. Then later you can look at a statistically insignificant sample (one) and re-evaluate X, Y, and Z.

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I was going to consider and respond to your thoughts but then I realized that a sample size of one post is a statistically insignificant representation of your thoughts on the matter.

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I'm rubber and you're glue?

If you'd like, I could repost the same thing 1,000,000 times. See the other thread about how this idea is not a scarce one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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If you think the political ideology of another country is better, then move there.

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This presupposes that the government in question trumps the inviduals property rights. Target doesn't tell me to move outside of their jurisdiction if I wish to shop at Wal-Mart. In fact, I can patronize both without any conflict.


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The OP was comparing politics to religion, not consumer preferences. And indeed, you CAN'T "patronize" two religions without conflict. It is true that our political structures are still largely based in physical geography, which is perhaps outdated. But I don't really see how property rights has anything to do with this. You can still own property in the US and be a citizen of another country.

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If you want to enjoy the prosperity that that liberal democracy has brought us, then you have to accept some of its coercive elements as well.

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I'm not sure if this is a self-contradictory statement, a self-evident statement, or a threat.

If I want to enjoy X, which is provided by Y, and Y also provides Z, then it's obvious that if I agree to Y that I am accepting both X and Z.

On the other hand, it's *not* obvious that I *must* accept Z in order to get X. I see no proof that you cannot get X without Z.

Z cannot be involuntarily imposed if X is voluntarily selected and X and Z are part of a package deal. Either I'm agreeing to X *and* Z, or I'm not. It can't be voluntary and involuntary at the same time. So the alternative in this case to avoid such a contradiction must be that X and Z are not inseperable.

On the other other hand, this could be a threat; "accept our terms or we will starve you to death."

Please clarify.

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I am stating that you cannot get X without Z. If you can find a political system that generates the same sort of prosperity without coercion, then go for it. I know many people on this board would disagree with this, but I don't think it can be found.

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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The OP was comparing politics to religion, not consumer preferences.

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So? The discussion is limited to those parameters?

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And indeed, you CAN'T "patronize" two religions without conflict.

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http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4448/orly1jk1uk3.jpg

http://jewsforjesus.org/

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It is true that our political structures are still largely based in physical geography, which is perhaps outdated. But I don't really see how property rights has anything to do with this. You can still own property in the US and be a citizen of another country.

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Does being a citizen of another country exempt me from US law?

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I am stating that you cannot get X without Z.

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Then it's either voluntarily accepted, whole hog, or not.

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If you can find a political system that generates the same sort of prosperity without coercion, then go for it. I know many people on this board would disagree with this, but I don't think it can be found.

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So in the meantime, it's OK for whatever you've decided is best in your subjective opinion to be imposed upon everyone else?

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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If you keep political ideology out of the state... how do you still have a state?

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Bingo! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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What's more important, "security" or "rights"? And what do you base it on?

The ability to "say what you want" or the guarantee of a job?

Political -isms put valuations on lots of things. Valuations that you cannot 'prove', but are often the basis of the -ism. Just like a religion.

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Good questions. I guess if you are going to ignore the issues on a case by case basis, and only make decisions from a blind faith in "rights" then it's pretty hard to distinguish from a blind faith in the flying spaghetti monster. Real world decisions aren't abstractions like "choose security or freedom", though, so it's much easier to weigh pros and cons in the specific application of that concept so that you don't have to fall back onto only philosophy questions. What do you think people should make decisions based on?

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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Real world decisions aren't abstractions like "choose security or freedom", though, so it's much easier to weigh pros and cons in the specific application of that concept so that you don't have to fall back onto only philosophy questions.

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Ever hear 'discussions' on the Patriot Act?
I am sure both sides are absolutely sure they are being 'pragmatic' and 'non-philosophical'.

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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Real world decisions aren't abstractions like "choose security or freedom", though, so it's much easier to weigh pros and cons in the specific application of that concept so that you don't have to fall back onto only philosophy questions.

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Ever hear 'discussions' on the Patriot Act?
I am sure both sides are absolutely sure they are being 'pragmatic' and 'non-philosophical'.

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I agree whole heartedly. Same with most abortion "debates" I hear. These tend to be the worst kinds of political discussions, IMHO, because they often get too personal. When you argue only from belief then counter arguments feel like personal attacks against you. It gets ugly.

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What do you think people should make decisions based on?

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Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the differenc
 

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What do you think people should make decisions based on?

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personal preference.

Re: Religious Ideology versus Political Ideology: What\'s the difference?
 

Nothing most will sacrifice there beliefs more money