Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

I opted to just give him a warning because not only was he a first time offender, but it was really the first politics offense in this forum. Subsequent trolling in political threads will be dealt with using suspensions.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

I am targeting this post at Politics regulars.

We have a big challenge ahead of us. We are used to looser modding in Politics than Diebetter and Wookie want. Things are going to be tighter than they were under [censored], if that is possible. I want politics in TLDR to succeed, and to do this, we are really going to have to elevate our discussion. I personally didn't see anything wrong with TBZ's post, but my opinion doesn't count.

I encourage all people who post in political threads to Please put some thought into your posts. You will have a lot better experience, you will learn more, and you won't get us kicked out. Thanks.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

I think what is needed here in TLDR re: political is less set-your-hair-on-fire-and-wave-your-arms style of debate, and more thoughtful, meaningful discussion. Think Sunday morning talk shows, not Crossfire.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First. CNN = Clinton News Network.

Second. My comment was a simple answer to the original question. Strategy for the Dems? Dean will be your downfall. My prediction is Dean will be replaced before then 2008 elections.

"The guy is an idiot." <<< That's a quote from my dear mom who is a national delagate from Minnesota! The most liberal state this side of New York!

Ok, That will probably be my last post re: politics. Back to poker.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you make any more, I or another mod will suspend you for at least 5 days.

I'm leaving this post as an example of what NOT to post here. This guy was lucky, Wookie gave him a warning not to post again before I saw it, otherwise he'd have got at least a few days away from posting. Look and learn, people.

db

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, of course, reasoned, intelligent posting is admirable.

But treating posters like naughty school-children is going to accomplish the opposite of what you want. More forums implode from poor moderating, than from trolls (and I'm not calling anyone a troll).

That said, what the Democrats really need... are some balls. They need to stand up to the likes of Rush and his sycophants and FOXNews and their shallow (but amazingly effective) tactics.

People tend to look up to those who aren't afraid to speak their minds. Too often, the weak-minded among us tend to (mis)interpret reasoned, intelligent opinons and positions as weak, or wishy-washy.

When Democrats (or at least one Democrat) is willing to stand up and call a spade a spade, they'll have what they need to start winning elections.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

You and I are on the same wavelength. The personification of what you are talking about is Dean, which is why he was selected to run the DNC. But since he is at the DNC, we can probably rule him out as a candidate. I have been hearing good things from John Kerry on this front. I think he learned from his mistakes from the last election and is becoming more forceful criticizing Republicans. Al Gore seems to get it too, but to be honest, I haven't been hearing as much from him. The main problem with Kerry is that the GOP still has that "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it" clip in their vault. The main problem with Gore is that I think he has gotten a little flakier since 2000.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First. CNN = Clinton News Network.

Second. My comment was a simple answer to the original question. Strategy for the Dems? Dean will be your downfall. My prediction is Dean will be replaced before then 2008 elections.

"The guy is an idiot." <<< That's a quote from my dear mom who is a national delagate from Minnesota! The most liberal state this side of New York!

Ok, That will probably be my last post re: politics. Back to poker.

Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you make any more, I or another mod will suspend you for at least 5 days.

I'm leaving this post as an example of what NOT to post here. This guy was lucky, Wookie gave him a warning not to post again before I saw it, otherwise he'd have got at least a few days away from posting. Look and learn, people.

db

[/ QUOTE ]
If I might make a suggestion, I think this experiment might go more smoothly if posters like the above are just exiled after the first or second post. Possibly let them come back and try again a few days/weeks later. To be honest, I don't think any poster that will make a post like that can be constructive, and it only serves to sidetrack the entire discussion.

I really don't think the forum (politics or otherwise) would lose much, if anything, by just giving them the boot right away. Either way, thanks for letting the experiment happen at all!

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

I believe that I speak for all the mods here when I say that we're not at all concerned about this forum imploding by overly angering the exiled Politards. Quite frankly, it's the position of many posters here and many mods of all forums that Politics was closed for good reason, and that 2+2 should not be home to any of the detritus lurking there. Few are thrilled about having the unsavory portions spill into their home forums. Exhibit A: OOT.

Instead, I figure there must have been something worth reading there, and some discussion that didn't inherently make blood boil. If that's the case, then TLDR is probably the best home for it outside of Politics. However, TLDR has a pretty well established base of posters who, like OOT, don't really want to deal with all the crap and bickering. DB and I have been using this thread, I believe the second political TLDR post, to start laying out some ground rules. What you call pedantic scolding, I call showing examples for clear guidelines in the future. I don't intend to publicly scold every marginal political post in the future, but while it's early, it's best to get the word out.

Posts like the one DB highlighted may look pretty harmless to Politics veterans who've come to expect that sort of thing, but it's exactly what people in TLDR, OOT, and elsewhere dislike the most about Politics: name calling, unfounded accusations, and thoughtless speculation. No, it's not even why the forum was closed, but it IS why politics was segregated off to its own are. What has been par for the coarse won't cut it any longer. If political discussion is going to continue here, it's going to have to shake off the aspects of it less politically minded people dislike the most. In this forum, it's going to need to be positive, constructive, well-mannered, polite, and thoughtful instead of being negative, inflammatory, curt, and wrought with unsupported accusations. If it turns out that political discussion is inseparable from its unsavory side, no, DB and I aren't concerned about this forum "imploding." It's a much bigger concern that the Politard-trolls will drive off the people who've enjoyed this forum and made it what it is. In the event they become too prevalent, it'll be easy enough to impliment an OOT-esque moratorium on the subject. If that has to be supported with suspensions, bannings, or IP bannings because some trolls can't give it up, so be it.

So far, I've read some very interesting political posts in here, and I don't mind seeing it continue. However, everyone else who's enjoyed them along with me should take heed of the standards layed out here. Times have changed pretty dramatically.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

I think it's important to understand that political parties in the country are not anywhere close to being unitary actors. This especially applies to the Democrats. It's really a symptom of the structure of our political system -- different things work in different districts. A "national strategy" might work for the base, to get out the vote in close races or national elections (and perhaps a few Senatorial ones), but getting elected, especially for House memebers, is more about their district than it is about what is going on in country as a whole. The adage about people having Congress but liking their Congressman is totally accurate.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

Am i the only who thinks Dean has done a really good job? And that Pelosi and Reids anger towards him is very misplaced? I really like what hes doing fund raising wise, and taking every single race seriously.

Re: Strategy for Democrats
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am i the only who thinks Dean has done a really good job? And that Pelosi and Reids anger towards him is very misplaced? I really like what hes doing fund raising wise, and taking every single race seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

His fundraising skills are poor. His infatuation with grassroots organizing has led to him ignoring big donors, who have in turn become wary of giving to the DNC while Dean is in control.