Re: kk hand
 

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Give villian a range.

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TT+, AK, AQ

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This range is too tight. While villain did cap, many good playing aggros will cap with less than this in a blind battle when they have position. Depending on villain you could add 77-99 and AJs, KQs.

After thinking about and reading the line bakku suggests, I really like his line the most. Preventing free cards and/or a free showdown can gain you most of a bet against villain's range here.

Re: kk hand
 

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so i was talking to CDC about this hand and after a lot of deliberation we decided that betting the whole way and calling down if raised (instead of c/c all the way down) is the best way to play this hand. this way we insure that a bet goes in on every street and even if we are raised we still have a good chance of being ahead. also, if your opponent has AK, he is going to take a free card on one of the streets a lot of the time.

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why is betting the flop better than c/ring it? Also if you get raised on the flop can't villain still freecard play you?

True

Re: kk hand
 

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I like it.

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Specifically, what do you like better about the calling down? Something in my gut really wants me to believe its better, but I'm sure I wouldnt do it. Probably becuase I suck.

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Give villian a range.

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TT+, AK, AQ

So check/calling means we get action from TT (though hell probably check the river), lose 2.5 BB's to AA, QQ, JJ. Probably get a bet from AK on every street, though he has 6 outs. And get 1 bet from AQ on every street.

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AA (6 combos)
KK (1)
QQ (3)
JJ (3)
TT (6)
AK (8)


You're ahead of 14/26 and 1 tie. You never have the equity to raise here.
Raising is the worst thing you can do. TT probably folds, AK calls and probably folds the river, the rest 3spank you.

It's the same equation on every street. If you're really lucky, you might get a river bet from TT or even AK.

NH Dave.

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Thanks Kwaz, This is what my instinct told me was right and now I get it.

Re: kk hand
 

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Dave C,

out of curiosity, did you play this so passively because it was 10-20?

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No, I've been experimenting with unusually passive lines with my premium pocket pairs lately.

Out of the three hands I've posted, 2 of them have been wrong.

One thing that I have been doing at that 10/20 game, and I don't think this is because of the limit but I"m not sure, is not continuation betting the turn as much. This has lead to quite a few lost pots, but I don't know how many are actually being lost with the best hand (kq, a9, etc.).

Re: kk hand
 

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so i was talking to CDC about this hand and after a lot of deliberation we decided that betting the whole way and calling down if raised (instead of c/c all the way down) is the best way to play this hand. this way we insure that a bet goes in on every street and even if we are raised we still have a good chance of being ahead. also, if your opponent has AK, he is going to take a free card on one of the streets a lot of the time.

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Bakku, entity is your av, right?

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Is this specifically in blind battle spots?

Is this specifically when you're out of position?

Does the 10/20 limit have anything to do with this?

Re: kk hand
 

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Out of the three hands I've posted, 2 of them have been wrong.

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Make that AT LEAST 2, after reading Bakku's comments.

Re: kk hand
 

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c/r turn if you have check/called flop and check turn. I would prob c/r flop and bet bet.

True

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I like this.

Re: kk hand
 

Bakku, some more questions. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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How often will TT take free showdown?

How often will AK take free cards? Edit: I assume free turn cards or free showdown, as opposed to free flops, does this sound correct?

How often will AK raise the flop for free cards?

Will AK call the river after checking the turn?

Will AA, QQ, JJ, AQ raise the flop and bet to the river?

Re: kk hand
 

c/r the flop, bet the turn bet the river. If he raises you at any point, then call down

David, you know I am the call down master, but I think your hand is too strong to just call down. If you had stats on the guy and he was like 26/6/1.5 over 1000 hands, then your line becomes more feasible, since you won't be ahead as often.

But seriously, this guy could have any PP, and Ace, and honestly, any two cards he decided to raise on the button with. And that includes trash like J7s.

This isn't a full ring game where he raises, gets 2 cold calls, and you 3bet out of the blind, and THEN he caps. It's a steal/resteal "who has bigger balls" hand.

KK is the nuts here, unless he raises you [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img], then call down.

Re: kk hand
 

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c/r the flop, bet the turn bet the river. If he raises you at any point, then call down

David, you know I am the call down master, but I think your hand is too strong to just call down. If you had stats on the guy and he was like 26/6/1.5 over 1000 hands, then your line becomes more feasible, since you won't be ahead as often.


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I 100% disagree. Vs those stats the optimal line is to bet to the river and fold to any raise.