Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

David and others,
I'm curious what you think about rising intelligence. In your eyes, does this 70% figure decline over time?

One of my favorite Sklansky threads to date.

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I'm not disputing this, but I would appreciate a source of some sort. Anyone? I am VERY interested in this.

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Ditto for this.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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The prisoners in the prisoner dilemma problem both benefit if they irrationally believe that there is a god who will punish them if they act in their own best interests. That situation is mirrored in many real life scenarios.

I hate irrationality more than you do. But I have also probably been more exposed more than you, to the unfortunate fact that at least 70% of humans are equipped with brains with such low horsepower, that teaching them to be more rational might do them more harm than good. (Of course the opposite is true for the other 30%. Yet in this country anyway, only about 5% get close to their potential.)

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I'm not disputing this, but I would appreciate a source of some sort. Anyone? I am VERY interested in this.

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This is totally my opinion based on reading, watching TV, and personal observation.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

awesome post David.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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The prisoners in the prisoner dilemma problem both benefit if they irrationally believe that there is a god who will punish them if they act in their own best interests. That situation is mirrored in many real life scenarios.

I hate irrationality more than you do. But I have also probably been more exposed more than you, to the unfortunate fact that at least 70% of humans are equipped with brains with such low horsepower, that teaching them to be more rational might do them more harm than good. (Of course the opposite is true for the other 30%. Yet in this country anyway, only about 5% get close to their potential.)

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I'm not disputing this, but I would appreciate a source of some sort. Anyone? I am VERY interested in this.

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I think David is getting soft in his age. He probably believes (and I wouldn’t argue with him if he does ) that the 70% number is conservative.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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The prisoners in the prisoner dilemma problem both benefit if they irrationally believe that there is a god who will punish them if they act in their own best interests. That situation is mirrored in many real life scenarios.

I hate irrationality more than you do. But I have also probably been more exposed more than you, to the unfortunate fact that at least 70% of humans are equipped with brains with such low horsepower, that teaching them to be more rational might do them more harm than good. (Of course the opposite is true for the other 30%. Yet in this country anyway, only about 5% get close to their potential.)

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I'm not disputing this, but I would appreciate a source of some sort. Anyone? I am VERY interested in this.

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I think David is getting soft in his age. He probably believes (and I wouldn’t argue with him if he does ) that the 70% number is conservative.

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Nah, I think it's about right. Remember he doesn't state that the other 30% are rational enough, just that they could use a little more rationality.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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"Perhaps, but your last sentence here should probably have been prefaced with the phrase "all things being equal", and all things are definitely not equal. There are major differences between religions that help us in determining their validity."

Fair enough. But if that is true it would be reasonable for a person who doesn't have the inclination or ability to study and determine validity himself, to note those who have, and see which group as a whole has shown the most ability at determining the validity of stuff that there is no debate about. And anyone using that criteria would not choose your particular religion as the one most likely to be valid.

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Most people in the situation you described go with conventional wisdom, which is affected by a multitude of factors outside of the truth.

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Moreover, though, let's assume for a minute that the Bible is true, and Satan is real. The influence of a deceiver could account for the existence of many separate religions as well. It's not so cut and dry that the mere fact that opposing religions are out there means that everyone of them is false.

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Probability that all these religions are man-made vs. satan created them?

You are proving David's point:


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Usually their lack of doubt comes from an inability to do critical thinking or a strong psychological need to be sure of their beliefs.

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Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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Probability that all these religions are man-made vs. satan created them?


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Did I say Satan created them? No, I didn't. One of Satan's greatest strengths is the power of suggestion. Nevertheless, my point remains. The existence of opposing religions should not influence a person's belief about the truth of the Bible because these religions would exist especially if the Bible is true.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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One of Satan's greatest strengths is the power of suggestion.

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This is off-topic, but why does Satan have any strength at all? (I ask those who believe Satan exists, obviously.) Why doesn't God just poof him out of existence? Is he unable or unwilling?

If the latter, then you must believe God thinks what Satan does is ultimately for the best, and is therefore good... correct? If the former, God is surely not omnipotent.

Re: My Final Word On Religion For A While
 

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The prisoners in the prisoner dilemma problem both benefit if they irrationally believe that there is a god who will punish them if they act in their own best interests. That situation is mirrored in many real life scenarios.

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I disagree that the "rational" choice in the prisoner's dilemma is to betray. Douglas Hofstadter, for example, argues that the "superrational" will recognize the other prisoner is given the same choices, which implies a symmetric payoff matrix, and therefore the optimal choice must lie on the diagonal. So they should both stay silent, since both silent > both betray.

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I hate irrationality more than you do. But I have also probably been more exposed more than you, to the unfortunate fact that at least 70% of humans are equipped with brains with such low horsepower, that teaching them to be more rational might do them more harm than good.

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I don't see how this could possibly be true, by definition.