Re: Very tough spot
 

The folding part or the AIDS part?

The folding part I sort of agree with. In the typical Commerce 60 game I would fold here as it will regularly come back and cost me 2+ more bets that I can't call and will almost always cost at least 1 more. In this game I usually get to see a 5 way flop for 1 bet and I think folding is not best. Preflop in EP I generally look for reasons to fold but I think this is a decent spot still.

Re: Very tough spot
 

In the heat of the moment i'm capable of doing anything. If i sense weakness i usally go with it. Don't know if i would raise again or just call with a 4. I could 4 bet a 4 though.

Re: Very tough spot
 

be honest here guys. the 3 of us all know that neither of you are folding anything A high or better that you went to 4 bets on the turn here with ever before showdown. even if it goes to 8 bets on the turn.

Re: Very tough spot
 

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Keep in mind he is capable of 4betting turn with pure air and semibluffs.

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isnt that a good reason why 3-betting is bad?

Re: Very tough spot
 

Well since I can't think of a made hand that he would 4bet the turn with I think having him 4bet me with nothing would be quite good.

Re: Very tough spot
 

i understand where you are coming from in the semi-logic statement that the more he raises the less likely he is to have a hand, but in a sane game i wouldn't ever considering putting in the 3rd, i'd call down the 2nd... however, given reads and the dynamics i'd try the ol 5-ball trick so he doesnt peel his 6 outs like if we just call down, but at some point i would fold and i think that is at his 6, if he gets that much courage with high card against a maniac image, good for him he has got a winner if we are ui on river... on a side note, i think if someone mixes up their play vs you it could devestate your chip stack based on how strongly you seem to feel people are trying to take you off your hand... - can villain have 44 here? maybe he checks a pair, you did...

Re: Very tough spot
 

"Well since I can't think of a made hand that he would 4bet the turn with"

im calling bs on this. he raises and reraises the turn liberally with all sorts of hands, good, bad, and in between. you know that.

Re: Very tough spot
 

Why would you three bet a pair of threes? If he is full of crap, you could find out soon enough by checking and calling. If you feel complelled to show how well you can sniff out bull shiit with a pair of threes.

You been winning lately?

This goes back to Skalnsky 101, where he states that if small pairs miss on the flop, they should be checked and discarded. What got into players that they think that they have to win every last dollar?

At some point the marginal income is just not worth it, especially raising a pair ot threes on the turn into (unpaired, doubtfully) overcards.

Re: Very tough spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
"Well since I can't think of a made hand that he would 4bet the turn with"

im calling bs on this. he raises and reraises the turn liberally with all sorts of hands, good, bad, and in between. you know that.

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sort of what I was thinking, but I was also thinking about how he sees your hand. What do you think your hand looks like when you 3-bet? When you call the 4-bet? When you 5-bet?

Since the pot is large now does Gary call the river now?

Re: Very tough spot
 

I would guess Gary will call down a 5bet with any made hand but I am not planning to bet the river unless I improve if I was to 5bet in the first place. Gary's line looks like nothing to me and my line looks like nothing to Gary. I have something so me put dollars into pot.

I really wish he would have 4bet so I would have had to make a decision as to whether I should 5bet or not. I'm beginning to think that he can have 44/55/better than 33 way too often for me to 5bet. I am quite certain that 3betting when he raises is the best play though.

To Gary what my 3bet should look like is either that I have a good hand (unlikely unless I have 44 exactly) or that I know he knows I can have nothing here so I raise again because I can. If I call his 4bet he will know I have some sort of something but he should probably fire the river with a crappy hand again just in case I decide to fold.