Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

I would say that a majority of that time was in smaller rooms. No more than 10-15 tables. Never played/worked in the midwest, maybe someday. I respect your point of view and I'm not saying I even disagree with what your saying, but protecting the players is the idea behind killing fouled hands.
LOL, funny thing is that I was the one that dropped the card off the table and was still ruled live. I went to flip my cards over and by some fluke, one landed on a corner(of the card, not the table) and bounced right back and off the table, couldn't do it again if I tried, and I'm not one to "slam" my cards over either.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

If a player mucks his hand (even if it is the best) before the pot is awarded on his/her own, then it is dead.

If a player mucks due to false/incorrect information given by the dealer or caused confusion by others and the hand can clearly be identified from the muck a floor person may rule it live if its in the best interest of the game.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

This doesn't directly answer your question but sometimes "one player to a hand" and "best hand gets the pot" collide. Note the following two related scenarios:

1. On the showdown action is complete and Player A tables two pair face up. Player B at the other end of the table holds his hand up showing it to his neighbor, shakes his head in disgust, and tosses it face down toward the muck. Before they become intermingled with the muck his neighbor says "Hey, you backdoored a straight." Player B now retrieves his hand and turns if face up showing the straight.

2. On the showdown action is complete and Player A tables two pair face up. Player B at the other end of the table holds his hand up showing it to his neighbor, shakes his head in disgust, but before he tosses it into the muck his neighbor says "Hey, you backdoored a straight." Player B now tables his hand showing the straight.

In the first case a top floor would rule Player B's hand dead since it is reasonable to assume that Player B would not have discovered his mistake without help.

In the second case a top floor would rule Player B's hand live since he has no way of knowing that Player B wouldn't have figured out the fact he had the best hand on his own.

~ Rick

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll shorten this as much as possible.

20/40 CAZ

On the river Hero bets with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board is

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villan calls, Hero tables his hand.

Villan who is sitting in seat 1 and has called down all the way from the flop flashes his cards to the players across the table. (away from the dealer) He then slams them into the muck. The player that he showed says "you just folded the best hand" Villan then takes them out of the muck at tables them. (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

The dealer stops everything and calls the floor. While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

What's the ruling?

I also have a second part to the question after I get a few answers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So either:

-I'm a character in this story and you got many details of it wrong

or

-Two remarkably similar incidents happened last night. (Mine was boring. I mucked the winner at showdown, asked the dealer a few times if she was sure I didn't table it at any point, and went on with my life. But hearts and nines and deuces and people sitting at one end of a table were involved.)

--Nate

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]


These hands are fouled. Generally these are going to be ruled live by an experienced floorman. Most places strive to rule in the interest of fairness rather than having a list of ways to "kill" a hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think where a lot of people go wrong is the diffrence between a dead hand a fouled hand

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll shorten this as much as possible.

20/40 CAZ

On the river Hero bets with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board is

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villan calls, Hero tables his hand.

Villan who is sitting in seat 1 and has called down all the way from the flop flashes his cards to the players across the table. (away from the dealer) He then slams them into the muck. The player that he showed says "you just folded the best hand" Villan then takes them out of the muck at tables them. (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

The dealer stops everything and calls the floor. While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

What's the ruling?

I also have a second part to the question after I get a few answers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So either:

-I'm a character in this story and you got many details of it wrong

or

-Two remarkably similar incidents happened last night. (Mine was boring. I mucked the winner at showdown, asked the dealer a few times if she was sure I didn't table it at any point, and went on with my life. But hearts and nines and deuces and people sitting at one end of a table were involved.)

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you a 40ish year old asian that speaks very broken english?

And the details are not pefect but were close, this happened on Wed night.

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ok, I'll shorten this as much as possible.

20/40 CAZ

On the river Hero bets with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] board is

2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Villan calls, Hero tables his hand.

Villan who is sitting in seat 1 and has called down all the way from the flop flashes his cards to the players across the table. (away from the dealer) He then slams them into the muck. The player that he showed says "you just folded the best hand" Villan then takes them out of the muck at tables them. (A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img])

The dealer stops everything and calls the floor. While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

What's the ruling?

I also have a second part to the question after I get a few answers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So either:

-I'm a character in this story and you got many details of it wrong

or

-Two remarkably similar incidents happened last night. (Mine was boring. I mucked the winner at showdown, asked the dealer a few times if she was sure I didn't table it at any point, and went on with my life. But hearts and nines and deuces and people sitting at one end of a table were involved.)

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you a 40ish year old asian that speaks very broken english?

And the details are not pefect but were close, this happened on Wed night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hass --

Nope. (My incident happened last night.)

--Nate

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the spirit of fairness, villain should get the hand. I'm assuming that there is absolutely no dispute that those cards were his.

By the way, someone mentioned that he 'folded' his hand. That is not correct. You can only fold when there is still action going on. After all action is complete, cards play and the best hand should get the pot, unless there is some question about whether these are his cards.

Hate to see him lose a pot that is rightfully his due to some technicality.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I felt about it too. I almost felt bad for racking up the chips.

The rest of the table got realy quiet for the next hour or so and I felt like as soon as I got up they were all going to say that I was a d!ck for no giving the guy with the best hand the pot.

Should I feel bad for taking this pot?

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In the spirit of fairness, villain should get the hand. I'm assuming that there is absolutely no dispute that those cards were his.

By the way, someone mentioned that he 'folded' his hand. That is not correct. You can only fold when there is still action going on. After all action is complete, cards play and the best hand should get the pot, unless there is some question about whether these are his cards.

Hate to see him lose a pot that is rightfully his due to some technicality.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is how I felt about it too. I almost felt bad for racking up the chips.

The rest of the table got realy quiet for the next hour or so and I felt like as soon as I got up they were all going to say that I was a d!ck for no giving the guy with the best hand the pot.

Should I feel bad for taking this pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Did you see his hand before he put it in the muck?

2. What does:

[ QUOTE ]
While we are waiting for the floor Hero says what are we waiting for he had the best hand give him the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

mean? Who is "he"? You or Villain?

Re: Best Hand Touches the Muck
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, someone mentioned that he 'folded' his hand. That is not correct. You can only fold when there is still action going on. After all action is complete,

[/ QUOTE ]

The hand isn't over until the pot is pushed. Not when the action is complete. This isn't the internet where everyone insta-shows their cards.

Yes, you can fold your hand when there is no action going on. It's usually called: not paying attention.

b