Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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I really don't see someone over 200BB+ deep firing this hard with out a really big hand. AQ is a possibility but I sincerely doubt he's betting it this confident that he is a winner with these stacks.

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I don't necessarily disagree - the problem is that he's betting this harder than I'd expect TPTK to bet, but not as hard as I'd expect a set to bet.

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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cs3,
why is c/c such a bad line on the turn? Because we miss value from Queens? I don't think he's calling 2 streets of value with AQ if we donk turn and bet river.

Or is it because you don't want to give a free card to a draw?

I'm assuming you're b/f-ing the turn then?

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i dont like your line becaue because he rarely if ever fires both turn and river with a AQ, but will almost always call both streets with AQ.
and yes, i think b/f > ch/r > c/c given how the hand has been played up to this point

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I think b/f the turn is absolutely TERRIBLE vs. a 20/18.

Either:

1) He puts you on an absolute monster for calling the flop and donking the turn and folds

or

2) He thinks your line is really [censored] fishie and it looks like you are b/fing so he raises (particularly with all his non-Q semi-bluff hands that you still beat).

Neither result is very hot for you.

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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- He has position and a fairly dry flop - why not wait until you fire a second barrel on the turn before raising - he can make a bigger raise and you'll be much more committed at that point.


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If he wants to go all in he needs to start building the pot.

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

wait, so he flatted AA OOP? and he's 20/18?? If he can show up with AA or QQ here I'd fold, but if he's repopping like he should, he has 55 or nothing and I call.

reposting b/c ppl have missed this

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

exactly stickdude. I immediatley thought top two or way more likely in his hand range... a set.

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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- He has position and a fairly dry flop - why not wait until you fire a second barrel on the turn before raising - he can make a bigger raise and you'll be much more committed at that point.


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If he wants to go all in he needs to start building the pot.

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but then he doesn't go all in after he's built this big pot... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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wait, so he flatted AA OOP? and he's 20/18?? If he can show up with AA or QQ here I'd fold, but if he's repopping like he should, he has 55 or nothing and I call.

reposting b/c ppl have missed this

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no i saw it, and im not sure why he can have AA here (AA adn QQ are both obv possibilities) but not be capable of calling PF in pos 200 bb's deep with some marginal hands too... like Q8s, 58s etc
and you guys think he pretty much never has Q8s, 58s, 78s, or 46s right?

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

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wait, so he flatted AA OOP? and he's 20/18?? If he can show up with AA or QQ here I'd fold, but if he's repopping like he should, he has 55 or nothing and I call.

reposting b/c ppl have missed this

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I didn't miss this, sorry. I thought this was an obvious call and that you are saying basically the same thing Casper said (with more words) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

bilbo-san,

villain HAS coldcalled OOP with AA in the past, so QQ+ def are in this guys range. reread the OP

Re: KK vs cold-calling TAG
 

I really don't see the snapcall here. Villain is obviously reading that hero can beat the Q by calling 1 massive raise and 1 moderate turn bet. He isn't risking his 200BB+ stack on a possible tie.