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Villain had A4. I'm not sure this was a great call down and might be somewhat of a leak....

Re: Results
 

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Villain had A4. I'm not sure this was a great call down and might be somewhat of a leak....

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oops [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Results
 

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Villain had A4. I'm not sure this was a great call down and might be somewhat of a leak....

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Dammit, now it looks like I'm just filling in after the fact. But I was going to say - Venetian would usually check anything less than a monster on this river. Even an overpair he'd be happy to check worried you had 2P or something. I'm pretty surprised he didn't give up after the flop though. Weird play. I guess he was giving you credit for being able to lay down TPWK - way to disappoint. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Congrats you just lowered your bluffability quotient, always worthwhile metagame.

Edit: it is a leak if you play it the same way next time against Venetian.

Re: Results
 

Yikes. I still don't like the call though. Haha.

Re: Results
 

This was a totally read-based play because Double Eagle and myself have literally thousands of hands played together in the past couple of months and I truly believed he would lay down if I kept firing. I do something like this probably <1% of the time and would never consider it against an unknown.

I did a couple of things that I normally don't do with a strong hand here and I thought that you may have picked up on that. I was kicking myself afterwards.

For the record, this call literally made me throw some poker chips I was shuffling. I couldn't believe you made it. Great call...this time. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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For the record, this call literally made me throw some poker chips I was shuffling.

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Was that over losing your chips, or your image?

Yeah, I think if he doesn't hit an OESD on the turn, your plan very well might have succeeded. Also the river is kind of a paradox, because if you bet small, TP will call. And if you bet big, the less it looks like you have something. Unless you have a monster. You have to risk a lot of chips to scare me off this river.

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For the record, this call literally made me throw some poker chips I was shuffling.

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Was that over losing your chips, or your image?

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It was more because I thought it was really the perfect time to try this and the hand that he ended up having was exactly the type of hand I thought I could move him off. The fact that Double Eagle's still not sure he made the right play by calling makes me think it was still a good way to play the hand. I'd be curious (though I certainly wouldn't expect him to tell me) if there was any other sequence of betting that could have taken the pot away.

I think I took a bad beat near the bubble on another table within a minute of this too.

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I can't really explain it, but the check raise just didn't feel "genuine", and I just never believed you. Truthfully I never got the feeling you wanted me to do anything but fold, but there are times I think I call too much, hence the doubt after the fact.

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We've played so many hands together that it would not surprise me one bit if you subconsciously realized that the check-raise was total BS. That and the comment above about raising to 120 when I completed makes me think that I might be too predictable in the SB.

If nothing else, this thread may have fixed a leak. Anyone else have any reads on me they'd like to share? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I do something like this probably <1% of the time and would never consider it against an unknown.

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I know you do, that's why I said I would fold the river [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

The problem with this play in this exact spot is that you know that Double Eagle is probably strong when he calls the turn. Maybe one of the (many) things that's keeping me from being one of the very best players is that I never try to bluff in spots where I know my opponent is strong but not strong enough to call... right now when I bluff it's because I think it's likely that my opponent is either weak (and I'm weaker) or there's a bubble consideration that would make my opponent fold a medium strength hand.

Actually there was a hand in Vegas where I knew that a good % of Adanthar's range was top pair with a good kicker and I probably could have moved him off it by bluff-raising the river and didn't. Here's the thread on the hand