Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Rhodesia under Ian Smith's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh7dM

Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh14N...eature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Mugabe came into power because of people Like Ian Smith.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

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There's a lot of othe dictators in Africa who are as bad or worse, without resorting to google/wikipedia I doubt you can name 3 of them...

[/ QUOTE ]

That still doesnt change the fact that Mugabe is a piece of [censored].

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There's a lot of othe dictators in Africa who are as bad or worse, without resorting to google/wikipedia I doubt you can name 3 of them...

[/ QUOTE ]

That still doesnt change the fact that Mugabe is a piece of [censored].

[/ QUOTE ]

No... but it is useful to understand why he has the support he does from other african leaders, especially south africa.

Also, I think the point remains that if people exclusively single out mugabe over people who are worse, you have to question why. I think alot of the time it is simple racism, where he gets singled out for what he did to the white farmers, where other african leaders get ignored because they are just oppressing other blacks...

I'm not saying the comments on here are of that sort, but are perhaps in response to biased media coverage and deliberate and effective campaigning by the white farmers political union.

Finally, 1 line comments about a complex situation add nothing.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

Im all for more media coverage of Africa and its leaders, whether they are tyrants or not. That more people are aware of Mugabe than other African leaders is true, and that might come from the reports of his treatments of white farmers.

Obviously Mugabe did not take over a perfect system, and cannot do miracles, but his leadership and how he is misleading his country is still despicable, even though there might be worse leaders out there.

And this thread was about Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, it was not a "rank the 10 worst African leaders". I think we all agree that the current black leader and the previous white leader of that nation both are/were garbage, while there might have been other white former colonist leaders in other African nations worse that Ian Smith he still was a terrible leader.

Do you find it problematic that I hate the way Ian Smith governed Rhodesia even though other white leaders in other areas of Africa might have been even worse? Hey maybe for him it even made sense to govern the way he did, and quite possibly he believed he did a noble thing.

And I do choose to judge Mugabe based on his actions, not on his popularity among other African leaders or nations.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Rhodesia under Ian Smith's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh7dM

Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh14N...eature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Mugabe came into power because of people Like Ian Smith.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you explain the existence of similar regimes/dictators/strongmen around the world and throughout history? Ian Smith too?

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Rhodesia under Ian Smith's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh7dM

Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh14N...eature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Mugabe came into power because of people like Ian Smith.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you explain the existence of similar regimes/dictators/strongmen around the world and throughout history? Ian Smith too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Rhodesia under Ian Smith's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh7dM

Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh14N...eature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Mugabe came into power because of people like Ian Smith.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you explain the existence of similar regimes/dictators/strongmen around the world and throughout history? Ian Smith too?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

And just to be clear, yes, repressive and brutal dictators often follow moderately (in hindsight) repressive regimes. The Ba'th party in Iraq came into power after the monarchy set up by the British, the communists in the USSR followed the rule of the last Czar, Castro in Cuba.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa....ap/index.html

Rhodesia under Ian Smith's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYDg3ofh7dM

Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe's rule:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh14N...eature=related

[/ QUOTE ]

Mugabe came into power because of people Like Ian Smith.

[/ QUOTE ]
How do you explain the existence of similar regimes/dictators/strongmen around the world and throughout history? Ian Smith too?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being obtuse here?

"similar regimes/dictators/strongmen" around the world are caused by lots of different things, some of which are the regimes which preceded them... the existance of other bad guys not caused by ian smith doesn't stop us being able to put him down as one of the causes for mugabe...

I'm really suprised you and at least one other thought this was a good argument.

Its like saying that the russian revolution coulnt have been caused in part by WW1 because other revolutions happened later when the war wasnt happeing...

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

Not being obtuse. It's the generalization I object to, not the specific case that Smith may have caused Mugabe. That said, I don't think it's shown that Smith caused Mugabe.

Re: Ian Smith, last PM of Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe), dies
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's the generalization I object to

[/ QUOTE ]

What generalization, that repressive regimes have negative effects many years after they are out of power?

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That said, I don't think it's shown that Smith caused Mugabe.

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Mugabe built his reputation and popularity fighting against the minority government, considering Smith was the face of that government for 15 years, you would be pretty hard pressed to come up with any argument whereby Smith didn't play an extremely important role in Mugabe's rise to power and the limited options of Blacks in the first mixed elections.