Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why in the world are the Yankees willing to give up Hughes before Joba?

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yea i cant really figure this one out either

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Here's a sentence I never thought I'd say:

"I was listening to Warner Wolf today and thought he made a good point."

He questioned why people were still discussing Melky, since the Twins just obtained a better center-fielder and presumably no longer have that need. So, if you're the Twins, wouldn't you be more interested at this point in multiple pitching prospects rather than another outfielder?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a sentence I never thought I'd say:

"I was listening to Warner Wolf today and thought he made a good point."

He questioned why people were still discussing Melky, since the Twins just obtained a better center-fielder and presumably no longer have that need. So, if you're the Twins, wouldn't you be more interested at this point in multiple pitching prospects rather than another outfielder?

[/ QUOTE ]

Who says Delmon Young can play center field? Isn't he projected to be a corner outfielder? He played most of his games in right last year FWIW.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a sentence I never thought I'd say:

"I was listening to Warner Wolf today and thought he made a good point."

He questioned why people were still discussing Melky, since the Twins just obtained a better center-fielder and presumably no longer have that need. So, if you're the Twins, wouldn't you be more interested at this point in multiple pitching prospects rather than another outfielder?

[/ QUOTE ]

Delmon Young is an awful centerfielder, an awful defensive player (but maybe Melky is too), and an awful hitter. But the perception is he has tons of potential and Melky does not, even though they are both similar ages.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

I'm not an American League follower, but Warner was declaring that Young was a center fielder, and a better one defensively than Melkey.

Was he just being Warnery?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

young is one of the worst defensive right fielders in baseball

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not an American League follower, but Warner was declaring that Young was a center fielder, and a better one defensively than Melkey.

Was he just being Warnery?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

cabrera's defense has to be better than delmon young's.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Yankees should just wait for Santana's contract to run out. I guess they're really scared that the Red Sox are going for him, but they can't give up such a good package for Santana.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yankees should just wait for Santana's contract to run out. I guess they're really scared that the Red Sox are going for him, but they can't give up such a good package for Santana.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would make the most sense but the twins will not let this happen - santana is going somewhere for sure, if not this offseason, then at the trade deadline.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yankees should just wait for Santana's contract to run out. I guess they're really scared that the Red Sox are going for him, but they can't give up such a good package for Santana.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would make the most sense but the twins will not let this happen - santana is going somewhere for sure, if not this offseason, then at the trade deadline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully he goes to Boston and ends up like Mike Hampton.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why in the world are the Yankees willing to give up Hughes before Joba?

[/ QUOTE ]

b/c Hughes had 4 mediocre starts ldo

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

JOBA THROWS THE BALL 100MPH OMG OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not an American League follower, but Warner was declaring that Young was a center fielder, and a better one defensively than Melkey.

Was he just being Warnery?

[/ QUOTE ]

Delmon Young is not the answer in CF. Even scouts who think he'll end up average in RF don't think he can handle CF. Last season, BP had Young at -7 in CF in 29g and -2 in RF in 133g.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why in the world are the Yankees willing to give up Hughes before Joba?

[/ QUOTE ]

b/c Hughes had 4 mediocre starts ldo

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because the only thing that can defeat joba is a swarm of bugs

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yankees should just wait for Santana's contract to run out. I guess they're really scared that the Red Sox are going for him, but they can't give up such a good package for Santana.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would make the most sense but the twins will not let this happen - santana is going somewhere for sure, if not this offseason, then at the trade deadline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully he goes to Boston and ends up like Mike Hampton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, Hampton is a guy that hovered around a 1.5 K/BB and was decent because he kept his H/9 low and was excellent at preventing homeruns. He was then moved to Coors, his homerun rate more than tripled and he got hit around a bit. When he got traded to the Braves, he basically was the same player as before the 121 million.

Santana on the other hand has a K/BB of like 4.5 and would be moving to Yankee Stadium or Fenway, neither of which is going to effect him as severely as Coors broke Hampton.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

If the Sox end up with Johan, the Yankees are in a lot of trouble in a 7 game series. I don't think a team with the financial resources of the NY Yankees should be worried about what prospects they give up, they just need a dominant pitcher to win in the playoffs. The value of having a guy like Johan that can match up against any pitcher in the game goes way beyond a $20-22 million contract when he's probably the differance between another playoff run and a great shot at a World Series win. Winning it all is the only thing that counts in NY, and Johan is the differance maker that can make that happen.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Please don't trade Hughes. Don't trade anyone. Gamble that he'll be a FA and give him the world. Please Cashman.

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It's not in Cashman's hands. Hank is the one doing all this.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yankees should just wait for Santana's contract to run out. I guess they're really scared that the Red Sox are going for him, but they can't give up such a good package for Santana.

[/ QUOTE ]

this would make the most sense but the twins will not let this happen - santana is going somewhere for sure, if not this offseason, then at the trade deadline.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully he goes to Boston and ends up like Mike Hampton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Basically, Hampton is a guy that hovered around a 1.5 K/BB and was decent because he kept his H/9 low and was excellent at preventing homeruns. He was then moved to Coors, his homerun rate more than tripled and he got hit around a bit. When he got traded to the Braves, he basically was the same player as before the 121 million.

Santana on the other hand has a K/BB of like 4.5 and would be moving to Yankee Stadium or Fenway, neither of which is going to effect him as severely as Coors broke Hampton.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring more to being paid to sit at home. But whatever.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Anyone see this yet?

Some Minnesota newspaper blog is saying the latest offer is Hughes, Kennedy and Melky. Then he updates to say the Yankees want to keep either Hughes or Kennedy.

I really hope that's just bad reporting. How does that package even get mentioned?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Just notice Jon Heyman says the third prospect with Hughes and Melky will not be Kennedy, Horne or Tabata.

This is going to drive me crazy.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

The worst part about all of this is that it looks like the decision to include hughes is coming from hank over the protests of cashman. What really worries me is that cashman will get pissed off over being vetoed and want to leave for another club where he really is in charge and doesn't have to deal with this BS. It looks like he is very settled in here and I don't think it's very likely, but him leaving and going back to the old ways would be a monumental disaster.

Hank seems like a giant douchebag. If I was cashman and I spent years putting up with George's interference, and then finally got increased control after threatening to leave, and built up a great crop of young players, and then saw the very best one traded by some [censored] a couple months after he takes over... I would probably be [censored] pissed off. I am sure there are multiple other clubs with great resources who would love to have his services. Hank's comments about arod and torre really worry me for the long term future of the club. His influences are going to make this a very unhealthy organization. I mean, this is a ridiculous way to act.. I can understand being upset by Torre saying the offer was an insult, but be responsible and show some class and refrain from firing back. His comments about that and arod are so immature it scares me that he the figure of leadership right now. Why does he feel the need to argue about this crap publicly?

I am curious what people like JOA or kyleb think of this whole situation, I haven't seen much about it on BP or HBT.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
The worst part about all of this is that it looks like the decision to include hughes is coming from hank over the protests of cashman.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think any realistic person realized Kennedy/Melky wasn't going to get it done, so if the Yanks ever wanted Santana then Hughes would have had to be included. I'd be surprised if Cashman didn't think this when talks started.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I was cashman and I spent years putting up with George's interference, and then finally got increased control after threatening to leave, and built up a great crop of young players, and then saw the very best one traded by some [censored] a couple months after he takes over... I would probably be [censored] pissed off.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was Cashman, I'd be ecstatic. Through my rebuilding of the Yankees farm system, I'd have acquired the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 29. Not only that, but I'd still have numerous legitimate prospects that could be important parts of the future Yankees teams for years to come.

Sure, Hughes is a great PROSPECT, but Santana has proven for years that he is a dominating, frontline starter. If Hughes pans out, he is AT BEST what Santana already is. If the Yankees end up acquiring Santana, I don't see how anyone can deny that the Yankees are closer to winning a championship. Isn't that what it's all about if you are a Yankees fan?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Well said ^^

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

As a Yankee fan I'm indifferent about the Santana talks.

Since I don't think the Sox are willing to give up enough to get Santana, I'm don't really care what happens.

If we get Santana, we get a great pitcher. But we lose Hughes and Melky and will end up signing somebody like Rowand for way too long and for too much money and be stuck with another Johnny Damon.

If we don't get him, we don't botch the CF situation and the Yankees keep a pitcher who has a great chance to be close to what Santana is. Either way, I'm happy as long as the Sox don't get Santana. If they do, big problems.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

from a buster olney article

"And the club's internal plan, if center fielder Melky Cabrera is included in the trade, is to switch veteran Johnny Damon from left field back to center field. "

there isn't any truth to this is there....ROWAND

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

If I was Cashman, and felt I was going to lose Santana to Boston, I would immediately grant as many interviews as possible where I would say, "I can't comment on other teams's players, but I think people consistently under-estimate the value of a top pitcher. I can see us paying as much as $150/5 for a free agent ace."

Then let the Red Sox try to sign Santana. They'll have to match that, or Santana will blow up the trade by refusing to sign an extension with them.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Please don't trade Hughes. Don't trade anyone. Gamble that he'll be a FA and give him the world. Please Cashman.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not in Cashman's hands. Hank is the one doing all this.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is prob a very bad sign if you're a Yankee fan

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I was cashman and I spent years putting up with George's interference, and then finally got increased control after threatening to leave, and built up a great crop of young players, and then saw the very best one traded by some [censored] a couple months after he takes over... I would probably be [censored] pissed off.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I was Cashman, I'd be ecstatic. Through my rebuilding of the Yankees farm system, I'd have acquired the best pitcher in baseball at the age of 29. Not only that, but I'd still have numerous legitimate prospects that could be important parts of the future Yankees teams for years to come.

Sure, Hughes is a great PROSPECT, but Santana has proven for years that he is a dominating, frontline starter. If Hughes pans out, he is AT BEST what Santana already is. If the Yankees end up acquiring Santana, I don't see how anyone can deny that the Yankees are closer to winning a championship. Isn't that what it's all about if you are a Yankees fan?

[/ QUOTE ]

So you wanna package a MLB avg starter and a MLB average CFer for an opp to sign to a long contract the best pitcher in baseball? Keeping mind that both the players you are trading away are essentially playing for free (LOLZ at salaries) and have a non-zero % of becoming the best players in baseball at their respective positions at sometime in the future.

The blackhole at CF if Damon is gonna fill it probably outweighs the benefit of Johan replacing Hughes in the rotation. If Santana gets a long ass contract as well... great since we know how awesome those all go [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

thremp what if they fill the hole in CF with rowand

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
thremp what if they fill the hole in CF with rowand

[/ QUOTE ]

Melky going forward is probably the best option avail for the life of the contract by a very large margin. He's very cheap and might be better than Jones over next 5 in pure on the field terms. Throw in the cost and its a no brainer. Why he's being shopped like some 3 dollar crack whore boggles my mind.

We need to look at the cost of Roward + Santana (I assume he'll get a fat extension) v the cost of Hughes/Melky. No doubt the first combo improves the Yanks chances of winning the WS significantly. But at maybe an additional 30 mil in cost? And probably decreases their chances a large margin by the 5th year. I think the money could be spent much better, whether just holding off or seeing what your cash can get your around the trade deadline next year.

Granted there isn't really much to fill their biggest hole at 1B. But surely there has to be some scrub they can toss a wheelbarrow of cash who'll give them a few win bump at 1B as a stop gap?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

I don't really get why Melky Cabrera is being tossed around as a piece of trash or waiver bait. He has okay range for CF, a howitzer mounted on his shoulder, and a reasonable bat. He also costs less than Thremp's annual salary.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really get why Melky Cabrera is being tossed around as a piece of trash or waiver bait. He has okay range for CF, a howitzer mounted on his shoulder, and a reasonable bat. He also costs less than Thremp's annual salary.

[/ QUOTE ]

there's no WAY the last sentence is true. Well, actually, nm, Thremp is prob a sick sports bettor.

One thing that concerns me about Melky Cabrera is his OBP drop from year 1 to year 2 - fluke, or what? Metrics don't seem to love his range. Is he supposed to develop into a 10-15 HR guy?

I like Melky a lot and hope he remains a Yankee - but I don't think he's being regarded as a throw-in to this potential deal.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Thremp was just IM'ing me the other day with a dilemma:

Him: Should I buy this $15,000 watch or this $20,000 watch?
Me: I don't know, probably the less expensive one.
Him: LOL idiot I bought both you cheap piece of [censored]

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
there's no WAY the last sentence is true. Well, actually, nm, Thremp is prob a sick sports bettor.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kinda sick to read. But it'll be close in 08.

But whatev...

But this puts me on such ever living tilt. Is last year his [censored] career year?!? Is he ever gonna improve? I don't care if he has a goofy thug name (then again Johan is pretty clowny as well...). Just let him sit out in CF and be a career yankee and hope he's the 4th best Yankee CFer of all-time.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

He doesn't have good range now, and its just going to get worse...

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Why would it get worse? He's not in his prime years.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would it get worse? He's not in his prime years.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was assuming he'd bulk up a little with age... it's not like he's a skinny guy

bad assumption?

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

Kosuke Fukudome could be an option to replace Melky in CF. I obviously don't know a hell of a lot about him, but I've read that he's a similar offensive player to Hideki Matsui and he's a very good right fielder who can play center field. I think I read somewhere that he's looking for 3/$30M. Take all of that with a grain of salt.

Re: ***yankees official offseason thread*****
 

ya some random asian guy who will probably take some time to adjust to mlb, or ROWAND....

also let me get back to my point melkys range isn't good now, and hes probably going to become bulkier and as a result slower