Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jively, also if you could provide a reading list for passive index type investing, I would like to add that to the reading list sticky!

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, the 3 books mentioned in this thread are good, but my favorite is:

The Four Pillars of Investing: Lessons for Building a Winning Portfolio by William J. Bernstein

The other 3 were:
The Intelligent Asset Allocator: How to Build Your Portfolio to Maximize Returns and Minimize Risk by William J. Bernstein
Asset Allocation: Balancing Financial Risk by Roger C. Gibson
Winning the Loser's Game by Charles D. Ellis

I haven't read any Larry Swedroe books, but lots of people here like him.

I'd also say Index Funds The 12-Step Program for Active Investors by Mark T. Hebner is good. I think you can download this e-book for free.

-Tom

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Jively, anything else.. what about bogle's books on index investing?

Re: Let\'s Read
 

I am 26 pages in, could be some time :]

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Earlier, I set up expectations for a post which provides more structure, clarity and definition for the group reading activity suggested by the Finance forum moderator.

I have strong reason to delay this detailed post for a day or two. Thanks to all the members who PM me to volunteer for leadership in the reading of specific books on specific topics. Your energy and passion for your specific topic is essential to the success of this learning program.

Thanks also for your patience as I finalize plans for Reading.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
Jively, anything else.. what about bogle's books on index investing?

[/ QUOTE ]
I haven't read them. I think Bogle and Vanguard don't really believe in the small and value premiums. (They have no International Small Cap funds, and their value funds are not deep value.) I think Bernstein's books are better.

-Tom

Re: Let\'s Read
 

To All Readers,

Sniper is assuming the leadership role in this task as I must stand aside at this time due to time and other contraints.

I plan to lurk and post on the threads that develop. Sniper, the forum moderator, receives the PMs you sent me. He plans to contact you as the Reading activity takes shape. Those who are prone to energetic involvement in activities such as this are encouraged to contact Sniper, who welcomes your PM as the Reading activity kicks off.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

YEP

I agree. I like this particular thread or whatever....

I was read it every chance I get. Hopefully -- just maybe I can contribute some. CW

Re: Let\'s Read
 

"I'll go to the library tomorrow to pick up the intelligent investor, since everybody seems to like that one. I'm game for that book or another. "

You must remember this "a stock is just a stock" --
and the "Intelligent Investor" is for buying a stock.

It's not geared to mutual funds -- just my opinion.... cw

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Do we know what the first book will be yet? Sniper mentioned "Automatic Millionaire," but I don't know if this was official. There's about a 95% chance that I'm going to be too busy to participate towards the end of this month, but if I do, I need some time to get the book, and I'm sure others do too. Even if I can't participate this time around, I'd still like to get ahold of your first book and get caught up as soon as possible (early May?) so I can have the background needed to participate in future discussions.

FWIW, I'm a beginner too. I graduate in 5 weeks, so at that point, I'll either have a lot of time and a little money or a little time and a lot of money. Either way, I'll need to learn more about personal finance and investing. This should be fun!

Re: Let\'s Read
 

yep yep yep

Re: Let\'s Read
 

I agree with jively,

Bougle is the savior for low expense mutual funds; the company he essentially founded ranks at the top one or two position for mutual funds, and what he wrote was great. But when it comes to writing great books; these others 'Bernstein. Gibson, Swedlow...."take it from there and that is what I recommend we "Lets Read."...

Re: Let\'s Read
 

My opinion:

For almost all my acquaintances, only a small percentage of them were consistently good or lucky in active trading. Very few -- many one or two. But....

With a little knowledge about asset allocation, the efficient market, etc -- most of us can become our own man, our own expert, pay low expenses, and do well in the market(s)....

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Ben Graham's book:
I think we should get a copy -- as a background. But it is for buying an individual stock or two. Sometimes we come upon a good buy (Peter Lynch approach).In 1997 ago I was buying Simpson connecters [Simpson Manufacturing ( symbol: SSD)] at Home Depot for making a trellis in my back yard. Home Depot was pushing their products -- I was impressed. I bought a 100 shares. I wish I would have bought a 1000. I was just lucky -- I guess....

The trouble is most of us aren't that good at consistently buying individual stocks.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Intelligent Investor has valuable information that pertains to investing in general, not just investing in stocks. I think it provides a solid framework for building financial knowledge.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
Asset Allocation: Balancing Financial Risk by Roger C. Gibson

[/ QUOTE ]
I want to withdraw this book. I was just looking over it again. This book is designed for investment advisors, and not for individuals doing their own investments.

-Tom

Re: Let\'s Read
 

I have highlighted below 7 major topic areas for possible reading.

1. Are there suggestions for other categories?

2. There have been books suggested in the reading list thread and in this one, does anyone have additional books to suggest?

3. If you are willing to lead the dicussion of a book under any of these categories, please let me know!

4. My initial opnion was to start at the beginning, and move thru these categories, as they build upon each other. Based on comments here, would people prefer to go thru these categories in order, or attempt to do them in parallel, with different people leading readings in various categories at the same time? Or possibly simply start where there is the most interest, and go from there?

Please express your opinions!

Draft Major categories for reading:

1. Personal Finance
2. Passive Investing - Modern Portfolio Theory & Index Investing
3. Active Investing - Value/Fundamental Analysis, Growth/Momentum
4. Active Trading - Trading Psychology, Risk Mgmt, Technical Analysis, Candlestick charting, Timing/Trend/Swing/Day trading
5. Derivatives/Leverage - Options & Futures
6. Other Investments - FX, Commodities, Real Estate
7. Business/Entity creation

Much thanks to Mr. Now for his efforts to move this forward.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

This seems like a complete topic list that will provide a great base of financial knowledge. I look forward to reading and discussing books in these topics to increase my financial knowledge.

The list order seems great to me. It would be most logical to move through this list in order.

The only possible addition if not already included in one of the categories, would be a general discussion of asset allocation or portfolio construction to link the passive and active investing categories.

Thanks for all of your had work!

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
My initial opnion was to start at the beginning, and move thru these categories, as they build upon each other.

[/ QUOTE ]
good idea, but here's a devil's advocate response....it seemed like the majority of people that mentioned a specific book that they were interested in reading mentioned intelligent investor. perhaps you should capitalize on that.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
good idea, but here's a devil's advocate response....it seemed like the majority of people that mentioned a specific book that they were interested in reading mentioned intelligent investor. perhaps you should capitalize on that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My initial opnion was to start at the beginning, and move thru these categories, as they build upon each other.

[/ QUOTE ]
good idea, but here's a devil's advocate response....it seemed like the majority of people that mentioned a specific book that they were interested in reading mentioned intelligent investor. perhaps you should capitalize on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I'd agree with this. It seems to me that this would ensure a lot of participation, which would be good to get this program going.

-bb.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

I think the intelligent investor might be a good start (partly because amazon has already delivered it to me.) But I think another good option, on more thought, would be a personal finance book.

Perhaps starting a duel reading between these two books at the same time would be a good route. This would allow people that currently arent investing a good opening. They could use the pesonal finance book to hopefully streamline their financial situation which would free up some cash to start investing. The intelligent investor would then allow them/me to begin to understand some of the fundamentals of investing (and perhaps practice some investing ideas on paper) while establishing an investing bankroll through the streamlineing of personal investing.

This reading of two books at once may mean the reading will have to be a bit slower, but this may allow for more detailed discussion and overall provide a better value for amatuers/me.

Obviously, those that only wanted to participate in one or the other would be fine as well.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

My original thought was that by reading "in order" we would be able to enhance the overall knowledge level of the forum and bring a consistant base of theory to the discussions here.

Since the consensus seems to be at the moment, that this isn't all that important, and to move this forward, I am content to jump around thru the topics as people step forward to lead the book reading discussions.

DesertCat had expressed an interest in leading the discussion on The Intelligent Investor, but hasn't confirmed that he's ready to start. If Buffett wants to kick it off, that would certainly be great too.... Cat?... Buf?

Re: Let\'s Read
 

I WAS ready, then I started reading "Market Wizards" which is a lot more readable. I guess I'll go back to the Intelligent Investor tomorrow :]

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Link to 1st Book thread: The Intelligent Investor

Re: Let\'s Read
 

If anyone has additional thoughts on other books we might read together in any of the categories, please post them.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Applying to both topics 3 and 4: using Robert Haugen's "The Inefficient Stock Market" as the basis of a discussion of the use of regression techniques for investment selection.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

ok, now that Cat has started this up, I am interested in opinions on whether we should read one book at a time, or can we read 2-3 books at the same time?

In theory we'll cover roughly 2 chapters per week in any book read, to allow sufficient time for discussion.

Basically, should we do the book readings in series, or in parallel?

Thoughts?

Re: Let\'s Read
 

series

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
series

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Let\'s Read
 

It might be interesting to read something in parallel that offers a different viewpoint. If II is the classic value investing text, I'd be interested in reading a classic growth investing text and discussing the two side by side. Similarily, as we move on to different topics it would be great to read books in parallel that give a balanced perspective.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

The Battle for Investment Survival by Gerald Loeb

Re: Let\'s Read
 

OK, I've setup a Digest to track our reading...

Please continue to post your thoughts, comments & suggestions in this thread.

Any thoughts on whether I should add additional material to the digest, or suggestions on managing the stickying of current reading topics, or anything else related to the reading project, please post them here.

Still looking for others to take on leadership of the reading of other books, so please let me know if you are interested.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

You guys have got to read Profiting In Bull and Bear Markets by Stan Weinstein. It is considered a classic, it's a great introduction to technical analysis, it's straightforward and understandable and it works.

It's a great book. Darvas' book is also a really entertaining, quick read to follow up after Weinstein.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

If anyone can recommend a good day trading book, I'm happy to read it. I don't think one exists.

eastbay

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone can recommend a good day trading book, I'm happy to read it. I don't think one exists.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

You can start with...

Tools and Tactics for the Master Day Trader by Velez & Capra (the Pristine.com guys)
Charting by Michael "Tiny" Saul (of Trendfund.com) is a good quick intro to Technical Analysis
Come into my Trading Room by Dr. Alexander Elder
The Day Trader's Advantage by Howard Abell
The Market Maker's Edge by Josh Lukeman
Profitable Day Trading with Precision by George Angell
Japanese Candlestick charting by Steve Nison

... and some of the other books in the reading list sticky

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone can recommend a good day trading book, I'm happy to read it. I don't think one exists.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

You can start with...

Tools and Tactics for the Master Day Trader by Velez & Capra (the Pristine.com guys)
Charting by Michael "Tiny" Saul (of Trendfund.com) is a good quick intro to Technical Analysis
Come into my Trading Room by Dr. Alexander Elder
The Day Trader's Advantage by Howard Abell
The Market Maker's Edge by Josh Lukeman
Profitable Day Trading with Precision by George Angell
Japanese Candlestick charting by Steve Nison

... and some of the other books in the reading list sticky

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read all of those except Japanese Candlestick.

I don't need to read about how I need to cut my losers and let my winners run, or how I need to find a system that matches my personality, or any of the other standard meaningless day trading cliches. I am also not interested in reading chart tea leaves by eyeball metric.

Give me something I can use, that is quantifiable, verifiable, and actionable. The real problem is that anyone who has good ideas about system development and evaluation isn't going to write a book about them.

eastbay

Re: Let\'s Read
 

fwiw, I'm majoring in financial instruments and quantitative finance at NYU (MBA) and will share what books we've read (all provide a solid foundation):

Investments by Bodie, Kane, and Marcus (this is an intro to finance book: CAPM, fixed income, options, valuation, etc)

Hull's book on derivatives

Damodaran's book on valuation (he teaches at NYU and is great for valuation)

Tuckman's book on fixed income securities (even if you don't care about bonds/swaps/options/forwards, the book is heavy on binomial trees, risk neutral probabilities, and creating replicating portfolios, which I believe helps in developing a trader/investor mindset)


Those are the biggies so far, in case you're interested in what the finance schools use.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If anyone can recommend a good day trading book, I'm happy to read it. I don't think one exists.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

You can start with...

Tools and Tactics for the Master Day Trader by Velez & Capra (the Pristine.com guys)
Charting by Michael "Tiny" Saul (of Trendfund.com) is a good quick intro to Technical Analysis
Come into my Trading Room by Dr. Alexander Elder
The Day Trader's Advantage by Howard Abell
The Market Maker's Edge by Josh Lukeman
Profitable Day Trading with Precision by George Angell
Japanese Candlestick charting by Steve Nison

... and some of the other books in the reading list sticky

[/ QUOTE ]

I have read all of those except Japanese Candlestick.

I don't need to read about how I need to cut my losers and let my winners run, or how I need to find a system that matches my personality, or any of the other standard meaningless day trading cliches. I am also not interested in reading chart tea leaves by eyeball metric.

Give me something I can use, that is quantifiable, verifiable, and actionable. The real problem is that anyone who has good ideas about system development and evaluation isn't going to write a book about them.

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

wow... I figured some of those were so obscure you hadn't seen them yet...

How about these?...

New Trading Systems and Methods by Perry Kaufman
The Encyclopedia of Trading Strategies by Katz & McCormick
Professional Stock Trading: System Design and Automation by Conway & Behle

Are you using Tradestation?

Re: Let\'s Read
 

[ QUOTE ]
fwiw, I'm majoring in financial instruments and quantitative finance at NYU (MBA) and will share what books we've read (all provide a solid foundation):

Investments by Bodie, Kane, and Marcus (this is an intro to finance book: CAPM, fixed income, options, valuation, etc)

Hull's book on derivatives

Damodaran's book on valuation (he teaches at NYU and is great for valuation)

Tuckman's book on fixed income securities (even if you don't care about bonds/swaps/options/forwards, the book is heavy on binomial trees, risk neutral probabilities, and creating replicating portfolios, which I believe helps in developing a trader/investor mindset)


Those are the biggies so far, in case you're interested in what the finance schools use.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hull is a classic

Damodaran's Corp Fin book is great, and everyone I know at NYU loves him, so I'll assume the valuation book is good as well

Tuckerman I don't know

"Investment Science" by Luenberger is a less unnecessarily wordy version of BKM

edit: that being said, I doubt any of these are what we're looking for here.

Re: Let\'s Read
 

Ed, in case you hadn't noticed, his post was a reply to the OP... are you saying that none of those books are worthwhile reading for the forum?

In either case, I find the information on what's being read in colleges, to be interesting.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some posts by some of the college students taking courses, describing what they are learning in some of their courses.