Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Yeah, he was pretty bad that year Amare missed.

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yeah, diaw really sucked that season, too.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

IrishHand- How many Cavs games have you watched during the Hughes tenure? The stats say he blows, so you can't be going off them.

To put it a different way, what makes you think Hughes is any good?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Yeah, he was pretty bad that year Amare missed.

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yeah, diaw really sucked that season, too.

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C'mon. Nash gets no credit for that? gmab. Diaw was barely an NBA player before getting to the Suns.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

and he's barely one now

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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ugh, hughes is just bad. you gotta watch the guy play. he misses layups. takes bad jumpers. makes poor passes and wrong passes killing offensive rhythm.

i will say he plays really hard.

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I never said he wasn't an idiot with low basketball IQ - only that he was more talented than Walton. Obviously though, a different opinion from the norm makes me the forum retard. Easy solution to that problem. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving!

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blah, i didnt call you a retard. i suppose i agree that huges has more talent, ie athleticism but thats useless since he makes terrible decisions and cant execute.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

KG, book it

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

I agree with the OP completely. Lebron is really stepping it up this season. He's improved in every area, especially on the defensive end (almost 2 steals/blocks per).

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

My pre-season pick for MVP was Carmelo Anthony after the way he played for the USA team. It looked like he took his game to another level. So far this year though I've been more impressed with LBJ and KG is right up there too.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

kinda not doable over the interweb, but I'd lay odds that Carmelo never wins the MVP award during his career.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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kinda not doable over the interweb, but I'd lay odds that Carmelo never wins the MVP award during his career.

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Yeah, i was just expecting more out of him after what he showed this summer. He played unbelievably against the international competition but it just seems like hes missing the killer instinct, win it all costs mentality that players like Kobe have. LBJ appears to be developing this as well. Hes gonna be scary good over the next 10-12 years if he can stay healthy.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

tuq,
No marquee wtf? Part of what makes Nash not MVP is that he doesn't play enough minutes and his scoring numbers are still inflated per/40 because of the fast paced offense.

IrishHand,
Player A has a 12 win team and makes them a 32 win team.
Player B has a 40 win team and makes them a 50 win team.
Who is better?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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tuq,
No marquee wtf? Part of what makes Nash not MVP is that he doesn't play enough minutes and his scoring numbers are still inflated per/40 because of the fast paced offense.

IrishHand,
Player A has a 12 win team and makes them a 32 win team.
Player B has a 40 win team and makes them a 50 win team.
Who is better?

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If the difference between 40 and 50 wins is the diff between not making playoffs and having a good chance to advance to 2nd round (well within the realm) then Player B.

Also, it's easier to have an large incremental win impact on a terrible team than a mediocre team. (though I have no clue if large is 5 wins, or 10 or more.)

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Clark,
I agree with your second point and was going to post that, but forgot.

Let's rephrase it this way
You are a GM of a random team you have to pick player A or B, who do you pick?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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i really dont think you could swap anyone with lebron and the cavs would be better. i could be biased since i watch all the cavs games and rarely watch other teams so i do have homer persuasions to him.

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You're not biased, he's the best player in the league.
I think swap him with Dhow, Dunc, or Nash, and the dropoff is relatively minute though.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Bobbo,
I think Nash gets worse on any non-Phoenix team, Phoenix is such a perfect system for his skill set.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Bobbo,
I think Nash gets worse on any non-Phoenix team, Phoenix is such a perfect system for his skill set.

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thing is, any team he goes will create a system around him because he's that good

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

no, he's not. how can you create a system when you don't have amare / marion / dirk / howard / etc. etc.? you can't just magically pluck those players.

lol @ irish, are you smoking rocks?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Nash and Duncan should be the top 2 on any MVP ballot until further notice

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kthx keep us updated.

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FWIW, I think that Kobe, LeBron, and KG are all of pretty similar value, but all behind Duncan

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What changed in the last 12 days?

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MVP != best player to have in the playoffs

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likewise MVP =/= most valuable to his team.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Nash wasn't even that good in Dallas. Good, yes, but not as good as he is now,

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Nash wasn't even that good in Dallas. Good, yes, but not as good as he is now,

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[censored] that nash is god

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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i really dont think you could swap anyone with lebron and the cavs would be better. i could be biased since i watch all the cavs games and rarely watch other teams so i do have homer persuasions to him.


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You're not biased, he's the best player in the league.

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http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2006...a_kobe_195.jpg

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Kobe isn't top 5.

funny ending to the Nets/Lakers game. Kobe was heating up. The announcer (Stu Lantz I think?) talking about how Kobe is the best in the 4th blah blah blah. Then he turns it over cuz he gets caught in the air, giving up what would've been a breakaway had a clear path foul not been committed. Then he hucks up an awful shot. Then after convincing the refs he was in the act of shooting from 27 feet when Kidd fouls him right on the inbound, he bricks the game tying free throw. Way to be Kobe.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

My vote goes to LBJ. He has the worst supporting cast, like really bad, and manages to win.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Kobe isn't top 5.


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ummm... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

This is how I think it will finish

1. KG
2. LBJ
3. Kobe
4. Duncan
5. Nash
6. Dirk

I think the all the attention will be on the Celtics this year and their turnaround and KG will get most of the credit and will win it going away. LBJ will probably deserve it the most, but the Cavs would need to improve by 4-5 wins or more for that to happen, which I can't see happening. If he stays healthy though I think he takes it next year easily. Unless the Suns or Mavs make a serious run at 70 wins this year (they won't), Nash and Dirk will take a backseat to everyone else this year in the MVP voting. Suns win the title though.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

meh. This season: LBJ KG Duncan Paul Dwight are all clear favorites over him at this point. Maybe you can come up with a way to rank him 5th (discount Duncan due to his mere 33 mpg or something silly), but I can't.

My main point is, it's not even close between LBJ and Kobe right now. Scoring is pretty much a push (similar bulk, similar efficiency since LBJ's higher FG% is offset by his FT%, the only real hole in his game). So are steals and TOs. His clear edge are rebounds and assists. He rebounds much better, especially on the offensive end. He facilitates much better (on a less talented squad, no less). On top of that, he throws in 1.5 BPG. He's just playing on another level right now.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Kobe isn't top 5.

funny ending to the Nets/Lakers game. Kobe was heating up. The announcer (Stu Lantz I think?) talking about how Kobe is the best in the 4th blah blah blah. Then he turns it over cuz he gets caught in the air, giving up what would've been a breakaway had a clear path foul not been committed. Then he hucks up an awful shot. Then after convincing the refs he was in the act of shooting from 27 feet when Kidd fouls him right on the inbound, he bricks the game tying free throw. Way to be Kobe.

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Yeah Kobe sucks obv. Brought them all the way back from 10 down basically singlehandedly, being directly or indirectly responsible for something like 20 of their last 25 points. He makes a circus 3 point play that maybe five other people in the league could pull off. But he misses a free throw at the end, the only one he missed in 16 attempts all game. Way overrated. Shouldn't even be top 20 IMO.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Haha.. I was waiting for that. And I agree with you, mostly. However, he was partly responsible for them being down 10 by going 3-16 or whatever. This is EXACTLY what's wrong with people when it comes to analyzing Kobe. And obviously it was just a one game sample, but it acts as a good metaphor. He has those Jordan-esque moments (comebacks, circus shots, dominance), and everyone starts saying "oh man closest thing to Jordan ever." But he's not. And it's not close (I've posted about it before, cited the stats, etc, so I'm not doing it again). Bryant is great. Phenomenal. A guy you can build a contender around, who are few and far between. But he's a far cry from the greatest baller ever, and currently isn't the best player in the league. It's that simple.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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But [kobe]'s a far cry from the greatest baller ever, and currently isn't the best player in the league. It's that simple.

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Thats fine, but to say he is not even top 5 is ridiculous.

I have always though KG was the best player in the league but I have also always thought Kobe was the second best. Kobe > Lebron. Lebron could not lead a terrible team to the playoffs in the West the way Kobe has led the Lakers the last two years. Its that simple. Me and Aces were discussing OJ Mayo in the Pac 10 thread and if you want to talk about guys who sleepwalk through games Lebron is the "king" of that and that only as far as I'm concerned. I'll give you that Lebron has had a better season than Kobe right now numbers wise, but as far as comparisons to Jordan go the only key stat I believe is games won. Against the best of the West (Spurs, Suns, Jazz, Mavs, Hornets, Nugs, Lakers and Rockets) the Cavs are 1-4 while the Lakers are 3-3.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

KC - Kobe's kind of having a beastly year (again). These are certainly "Jordan-esque" numbers - but I agree that commentators overweight Kobe's end-of-game heroics (this is most clearly seen in 82games clutch performers' analytics).

If LBJ keeps up his 31/8/8 pace shooting 50% from the field, they can not deny him the MVP. KG is having a brilliant season but unless one of the C's Big 3 gets injured (boosting KG's #s), this is LBJ's year. I would say the fact KG recently won an MVP hurts his chances also - but Nash voting seems to indicate this isn't a huge voter concern. (Then again KG is not white.)

-Al

Edit - oh KC, I realize that Kobe's numbers are somewhat close but not on par with Jordan at the same age etc., just felt you were a bit unfair. Also lol at Kobe fans claiming LBJ's supporting cast >> Kobe's supporting cast - Lakers have a solid roster.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Paul Pierce is playing great basketball right now. This needs to be considered in the case against KG.

Also...Lebron's +/- stats are ridiculous

http://www.82games.com/0708/0708CLE.HTM

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Kobe hasn't led the Lakers the last two years, WTF are you talking about. While he's great enough to bring them back and even win games, he also takes them out and loses the team a lot of games with his selfishness and his refusal to pass the ball when the team is in distress vs a good team in the second half.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Where do you guys think Chris Paul ranks right now? I think the top 6 in no order are Kobe, KG, Duncan, LeBron, Paul, Howard

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Where do you guys think Chris Paul ranks right now? I think the top 6 in no order are Kobe, KG, Duncan, LeBron, Paul, Howard

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Honestly? #4 behind LBJ KG and Dwight, but I have it pretty close between Dwight and Paul.

edit: maybe Al's avatar sneaks in at the #3 spot. It kills. It kills.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Kobe hasn't led the Lakers the last two years, WTF are you talking about.

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is this a level?

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

I hate discussing stuff like the MVP this early, and I know he won't win, but Baron Davis is as valuable to his team as any other (non Lebron division) player in the league.

obv KG, Kobe, Howard, Duncan etc are all in the discussion.

Also DWade may end up making a case for himself

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

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Where do you guys think Chris Paul ranks right now? I think the top 6 in no order are Kobe, KG, Duncan, LeBron, Paul, Howard

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Honestly? #4 behind LBJ KG and Dwight, but I have it pretty close between Dwight and Paul.

edit: maybe Al's avatar sneaks in at the #3 spot. It kills. It kills.

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I don't really have a top MVP list but I think KG, Kobe, Lebron, Duncan, Dwight, Boozer, Paul, Nash and Dirk all are up there. And Colin, lol at not having Duncan or Parker in your top 5 list but having both KG and Paul Pierce.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

...he means chris paul, not paul pierce.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

I meant Chris Paul, not Pierce (who's playing great and probably worthy of a top 10 nod). I can see my inconsistent usage of first/last names is confusing. Using last names, I've already said my top 5 is James, Garnett, Duncan, Howard, and Paul.

Re: 2007-2008 NBA MVP
 

Is Duncan really playing all that well? I think the big 3 on that team are all playing equally well but none of them are having as big of an impact as Chris Paul or Dwight Howard.