Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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this should be an argument where both sides agree to disagree. i'm not saying PA or KT are right, im just saying that they are obviously not gonna change their opinion.

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Yeah this seems like a non-productive argument really for many reasons.

But that broccoli and cheese person sounds like they have life down pretty well.

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mmm....

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

David must be hurting for some attention these days.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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I think the answer to all this is simple. Online guys see a lot more hands and are generally just all around smarter than the old school love pros. IF and a big IF, the live guys are better at live deep stacked poker, then it would just be a matter of the top online NL pros dedicating themselves to the nuances of deep stacked play and then it would be all over for the live guys. And obviously with 100bb stacks it's not even close. The online guys would destroy the live guys.

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and you don't think the opposite is true for the live guys? you don't think if they farted around with 100bb stacks for a few months, they couldn't torture the online games? if so, why not?

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Because A. they never have and if they could they would be doing it already. I mean these guys go to the smelly casino all day and have sick variance at times. So many are broke. They could be grinding the cash games online and making supplemental money.

Plus so many of them are street smart kind of guys. Aren't real good with numbers etc. Lots are just plain stupid. Not that all of the online guys are brillinat, but many are. My poker buddies are ivey league grads and successful wall street guys etc. How many of the live guys could graduate from an ivey league school...lol. Half probably don't even have a high school diploma.

Plus it's hard to adjust to different games when you gain your experience so slowly. How are they going to make huge adjustments and use data to make these adjustments when they can't do it as fast as online guys. I just think overall that if they could do it they would. I mean why not have an extra source of income while lying in bed w/ your laptop?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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OP,

you are a waste of life

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i don't get it. why is this young [punk] being so disrespectful?

skalansky is one of our masters, like doyle; you do not disrespect a master

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

There are alot of people on this planet, I guess that since online people isn't in their natural habitat when they play live, the people who always play live have an advantage when they play vs each other (who knows). But the interesting thing about this discussion is if live players are more skilled than online players. I guess live players play more deep stacked which is something you want to do to increase the amount of skill involved. Why ask about the best at 10 handed? Why not just ask about live and deep? I guess an argument could be that there are players who only bother to play live and 10 handed who won't touch online who are simply far superior, but can that be true?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

WHY CANT WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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David must be hurting for some attention these days.

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Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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I'm about to go to whataburger and get some breakfast

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Damn you! I wish that I lived less than 5,000 miles from the nearest Whataburger!

...I also wish that my damned self-esteem didn't prevent me eating fast-food for breakfast!

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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Always struggling to come up with a versatile, if not favorable side dish, I asked my daughter which she prefers - Rice-A-Roni or buttered noodles.





Her answer was melted Velvetta over steamed broccoli

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Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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OP,

you are a waste of life

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i don't get it. why is this young [punk] being so disrespectful?

skalansky is one of our masters, like doyle; you do not disrespect a master

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there is only one master

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8559/76492572bo3.jpg

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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I have been a proponent of the online player side of the argument for a while now but this just makes me do a 180. I mean who could be better suited to answer this question than PA?

I am not saying im convinced overall but this makes the endless arguement slightly more interesting.

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Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]
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OP,

you are a waste of life

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get it. why is this young [punk] being so disrespectful?

skalansky is one of our masters, like doyle; you do not disrespect a master

[/ QUOTE ]

there is only one master

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/8559/76492572bo3.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

http://swg.stratics.com/content/lore...mages/yoda.gif

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

David, Patrick has obviously leveled you and made you look completely ridiculous in NVG.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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I have been a proponent of the online player side of the argument for a while now but this just makes me do a 180. I mean who could be better suited to answer this question than PA?

I am not saying im convinced overall but this makes the endless arguement slightly more interesting.

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im sure they are both wrong but not THAT wrong. there are probably a few online guys who would destroy these games and most would probably take quite a while to adjust (if they were able to) and be big losers at first. Keep in mind David is purposely asking about ultra-deep 10 handed tables in order to get the answer he thinks will get him the most attention.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

why is this news - haven't any of you guys played the deep games on ftp - that's 6 handed and only 200bb and yet good mid/high stakes 100bb regs are terrible almost across the board.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

the pool of strong online players is definitely deeper than the pool of strong live players. there just aren't that many people who play big live games on a regular basis. even in vegas or LA, it's hard to get together a 50-100nl game. games bigger than that are rare and usually have to be organized ahead of time, except during the wsop. there aren't that many obvious picks for, say, the top 20 live NL players. offhand, obvious picks include kenny, doyle, barryg, patrik, ivey, less obvious picks bobby baldwin, nick shulman, haralabob voulgaris. -ba

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

[ QUOTE ]

Always struggling to come up with a versatile, if not favorable side dish, I asked my daughter which she prefers - Rice-A-Roni or buttered noodles.





Her answer was melted Velvetta over steamed broccoli

[/ QUOTE ]

My daughter likes macaroni & cheese with tuna. I like tacos.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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why is this news - haven't any of you guys played the deep games on ftp - that's 6 handed and only 200bb and yet good mid/high stakes 100bb regs are terrible almost across the board.

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Are they worse than the rejects on high stakes poker?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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the pool of strong online players is definitely deeper than the pool of strong live players. there just aren't that many people who play big live games on a regular basis. even in vegas or LA, it's hard to get together a 50-100nl game. games bigger than that are rare and usually have to be organized ahead of time, except during the wsop. there aren't that many obvious picks for, say, the top 20 live NL players. offhand, obvious picks include kenny, doyle, barryg, patrik, ivey, less obvious picks bobby baldwin, nick shulman, haralabob voulgaris. -ba

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is there anyway you can come up with a well thought out full list of the top 20...maybe put it in your next bluff article??

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

i'll put my money on daniel negreanu over a greenhorn live player like, oh, say, action jeff. who else?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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the pool of strong online players is definitely deeper than the pool of strong live players. there just aren't that many people who play big live games on a regular basis. even in vegas or LA, it's hard to get together a 50-100nl game. games bigger than that are rare and usually have to be organized ahead of time, except during the wsop. there aren't that many obvious picks for, say, the top 20 live NL players. offhand, obvious picks include kenny, doyle, barryg, patrik, ivey, less obvious picks bobby baldwin, nick shulman, haralabob voulgaris. -ba

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is there anyway you can come up with a well thought out full list of the top 20...maybe put it in your next bluff article??

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That would be very interesting. From my undertanding Brandon plays alot of live and online and has probably played most of the people making the best online list and the best live list.

EDIT: after some thought though, if I was in BA's position I don't I would be writing any lists.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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after some thought though, if I was in BA's position I don't I would be writing any lists.

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he could post it unanimously or have it go into the magazine as an unknown author

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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Lets ask mike matusow his opinion.

I mean he's lost a lot of money on Full Tilt so obviously he has to respect the skill of the online players, right?

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The flaw in this concept is easily gotton around with the classic "online isnt real poker" argument.

Fwiw, i think this argument is pretty silly - i also suspect PAs answer is swayed by the way DS asked it. There is a big difference between:

If today you were to gather the best ten full ring players around a table for a live game, how many of them would be online players?

If, given the time to adapt, how many players (if any) would the top ten full ring live players be internet players?

How many of the top ten cash game players in the world are internet players?

Three VERY different statements, where the one that is the broadest is the most important and the one that is the narrowest is the one that KT and PA have commented on.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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i'll put my money on daniel negreanu over a greenhorn live player like, oh, say, action jeff. who else?

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This would obv never go down in an NVG bet, but humor me plz. What setting would this be in? 20bb freezeouts are alot diff from 100-200 uncapped....

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

The online guys will fly across the country/globe to get in the live games but name pros won't walk across their living room to get in an online game.

And if I was PA and knew the live action was soft I would do all I could to conceal the fact for as long as I could.

Gus and DB have played both sides and I don't see them having an easy time online. No reason to think the rest of the pros would be significantly better.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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...I mean these guys go to the smelly casino all day...They could be grinding the cash games online and making supplemental money.

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Do some of you really believe this?

I'll admit the Venetian seems to have a bit too much perfume in the air. Otherwise, the only problem with any poker room I frequent is a few cocktail napkins under the table.

I spend my poker playing time in billion dollar resorts. That beats the hell out of "lying in bed w/ your laptop."

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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The online guys will fly across the country/globe to get in the live games but name pros won't walk across their living room to get in an online game.


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In their defense, if you could hand pick games in the way i understand the live pros like Thaler and Tran do (to what extent i have no clue) why would you play elsewhere?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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I think the answer to all this is simple. Online guys see a lot more hands and are generally just all around smarter than the old school love pros. IF and a big IF, the live guys are better at live deep stacked poker, then it would just be a matter of the top online NL pros dedicating themselves to the nuances of deep stacked play and then it would be all over for the live guys. And obviously with 100bb stacks it's not even close. The online guys would destroy the live guys.

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and you don't think the opposite is true for the live guys? you don't think if they farted around with 100bb stacks for a few months, they couldn't torture the online games? if so, why not?

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Because A. they never have and if they could they would be doing it already. I mean these guys go to the smelly casino all day and have sick variance at times. So many are broke. They could be grinding the cash games online and making supplemental money.

Plus so many of them are street smart kind of guys. Aren't real good with numbers etc. Lots are just plain stupid. Not that all of the online guys are brillinat, but many are. My poker buddies are ivey league grads and successful wall street guys etc. How many of the live guys could graduate from an ivey league school...lol. Half probably don't even have a high school diploma.

Plus it's hard to adjust to different games when you gain your experience so slowly. How are they going to make huge adjustments and use data to make these adjustments when they can't do it as fast as online guys. I just think overall that if they could do it they would. I mean why not have an extra source of income while lying in bed w/ your laptop?

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my feeling is that many would do just fine.

where is B.?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

I'm going to post in this thread even though I'm not going to read it.

I'll be god damned if I'm not one of the top 100 NLHE poker players in the world, and I'm probably not one of the top 50 internet players.

I'll also be damned if even half of the top 20 are live players, or if ANY of the top 20 NLHE shorthanded players are live players.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

When was the last time these top online pros played 6 handed, let alone 9 handed?
They are probably mostly live players now anyways, since they don't seem to play much online anymore. (at least on full tilt)
about the non-invites, why can't they organize their own live games?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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...I mean these guys go to the smelly casino all day...They could be grinding the cash games online and making supplemental money.

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Do some of you really believe this?

I'll admit the Venetian seems to have a bit too much perfume in the air. Otherwise, the only problem with any poker room I frequent is a few cocktail napkins under the table.

I spend my poker playing time in billion dollar resorts. That beats the hell out of "lying in bed w/ your laptop."

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Not trying to troll this thread, i just find this topic very interesting.

I wonder what it is in the way people operate/think that makes one more attracted to the casino lifestyle of poker as opposed to staying home grinding daily.

There has to be some correlation, possibly the way they grew up, something triggering their preference right?

I would love to hear someone with more of a psychological background comment on this.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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...I mean these guys go to the smelly casino all day...They could be grinding the cash games online and making supplemental money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do some of you really believe this?

I'll admit the Venetian seems to have a bit too much perfume in the air. Otherwise, the only problem with any poker room I frequent is a few cocktail napkins under the table.

I spend my poker playing time in billion dollar resorts. That beats the hell out of "lying in bed w/ your laptop."

[/ QUOTE ]

Not trying to troll this thread, i just find this topic very interesting.

I wonder what it is in the way people operate/think that makes one more attracted to the casino lifestyle of poker as opposed to staying home grinding daily.

There has to be some correlation, possibly the way they grew up, something triggering their preference right?

I would love to hear someone with more of a psychological background comment on this.

[/ QUOTE ]

working from home can suck.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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Question: Regarding the very big, live game, full table NLH games, how many players who are, or were, considered mainly internet players, would be among the top twenty best players, playing that game?

Kenny Tran answered "zero". Assuming Patrik is not counted as an internet player.

Many here disagreed, but when on to say that Patrik would be a much better person to ask if I wanted the right answer. So I did today. And after he answered me (after about 15 seconds of thought as opposed to Kenny who didn't think at all) I asked for his permission to post it.



(INSERT LINE BREAKS FOR DRAMATIC EFFECT!)



His answer was zero.

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Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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The online guys will fly across the country/globe to get in the live games but name pros won't walk across their living room to get in an online game.


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In their defense, if you could hand pick games in the way i understand the live pros like Thaler and Tran do (to what extent i have no clue) why would you play elsewhere?

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you really are pathetic jacking my pic an hour after I made it.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

All I know is that they better start learning other games outside of shorthanded no limit holdem. Specialists get no action once they've reached a certain skill level IMO.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

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Question: Regarding the very big, live game, full table NLH games,

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Iv never seen a online full ring big game...

Remember That The Juicier Big Live Games Will Be Accessible Now
 

Unlike the majority of the year when the game at the Bellagio or Venetian starts full with a list, the Bellagio tournament means 24 hour games with weaker players more randomly dispersed. A perfect opportunity to make these guys eat their words.

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

david et al:

WHO THE [censored] CARES???

serious question: do you guys masturbate while looking in the mirror?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

didn't jman challenge any live pro to hu4rolls except ivey/patrick? if there are at least 18 people between those two and galfond you would think someone would step up? Also once aba gets back to his prime is there anyone he won't play at like 1k/2k?

Re: Just Got Patrik Antonius Answer To The Question I Asked Kenny Tran
 

DS, why not just ask them if internet players are in the top 20 NLHE players in the world period. That kind of question would be more geared towards overall skill.