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-   -   SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc) (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=548172)

Clayton 11-17-2007 08:35 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
ok cool, i called with a five

dirtylobster 11-17-2007 08:36 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 

Board: 8c 8d 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 42.671% 41.88% 00.79% 156714 2970.00 { 55+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 57.329% 56.54% 00.79% 211566 2970.00 { JJ }

dirtylobster 11-17-2007 08:37 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Lol. What did he have?

EDIT: Ah didn't notice it was 2/4. For 50bb I'd def. stick it in much lighter. But still not with a naked 5. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Clayton 11-17-2007 08:37 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
KT

Ratamahatta 11-17-2007 08:46 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Does anyone have custom PAHUD layout for OnGame/PokerRoom and want to share it with me? Please?

bubaloo 11-17-2007 09:10 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
mynameizgreg's video is very good for the first 15 minutes as well.

[/ QUOTE ]
where are the videos on the site? i click vids but it says there arent any up yet.

RockRattler 11-17-2007 09:18 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get what makes the regs threads appropriate for MSNL but not SSNL?

People who think they're circle jerks can just avoid them, but for mine they were just places where people who played in the same games could talk with each other. I followed the Party thread for a while then the FTP thread, and no feathers were ever rustled in either. I never saw anyone outed involuntarily or anything like that, they were just a bit of fun. They also gave people a venue to discuss site specific issues when they arose. It just strikes me as weird to ban them.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. Please open

bubaloo 11-17-2007 09:27 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
some people say its unlucky to win the first hand of the day.... i say [censored] that

Pacific Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.5
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $22.81
UTG+1: $76.25
CO: $52.08
Button: $10.83
SB: $38.71
Bub: $50

Pre-flop: (6 players) Bub is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $1</font>, 3 folds, Bub calls, UTG calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($3.25, 3 players)
Bub checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $2</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">Bub raises to $6.5</font>, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($18.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Bub bets $13</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $26</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Bub raises all-in $29.5</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($99.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $99.25)


Results:
Final pot: $99.25
Bub shows K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG+1 mucks A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

PartysOver 11-17-2007 10:09 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
So far I can see the first frame of the video's at LeggoPoker. The rest of the video won't load.

If I'm prompted to login, no pages will load afterwards just the green background.

The "remember me" doesn't work.

I'm on XP using and old version of IE. So far i'm really disappointed [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 10:32 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't get what makes the regs threads appropriate for MSNL but not SSNL?

People who think they're circle jerks can just avoid them, but for mine they were just places where people who played in the same games could talk with each other. I followed the Party thread for a while then the FTP thread, and no feathers were ever rustled in either. I never saw anyone outed involuntarily or anything like that, they were just a bit of fun. They also gave people a venue to discuss site specific issues when they arose. It just strikes me as weird to ban them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, completely agree. I'd gotten more active in the Party thread in the last 3 weeks, and there was a definite sense of community. I'd love to see them reopen, although i assume there was a legitimate reason they were locked, so i'll wait for the official green line.

AaronOC 11-17-2007 10:36 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
BRING BACK THE PARTY THREAD,

i was just about to post the table number where there is a maniac shoving 200bbs every hand [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

costanza_g 11-17-2007 10:39 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Am I supposed to be folding this to a 18/15 regular w/no history?


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($43)
MP ($199)
Button ($287)
Hero ($288.45)
BB ($294.55)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $27</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $19.

Flop: ($55) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $42</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $126</font>, Hero calls $84.

Turn: ($307) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets $135 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $135.

costanza_g 11-17-2007 10:43 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Who the [censored] authorized god mode for SilentSupra?

[/ QUOTE ]


SilentSupra has not been in god mode from what ive seen.

AaronOC 11-17-2007 11:49 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
it's been a while since this happened

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Hero ($201.70)
MP ($193.50)
CO ($391.15)
Button ($55.85)
SB ($221.75)
BB ($218)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ks.gif. Hero posts a blind of $2.
[color=#666666]2 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]Button raises to $7</font>, SB calls $6, [color=#CC3333]Hero (poster) raises to $32</font>, Button calls $55.85 (All-In), [color=#CC3333]SB raises to $90</font>, Hero calls $199.70 (All-In), SB calls $111.70.

Flop: ($466.25) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/4h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/9s.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/as.gif [color=#0000FF](4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: ($466.25) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3c.gif [color=#0000FF](4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: ($466.25) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/5c.gif [color=#0000FF](4 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $497.25

Results in white below: [color=#FFFFFF]
SB has Ad Ah (three of a kind, aces).
BB doesn't show.
Hero has Ac Ks (one pair, aces).
Button has Kd Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: SB wins $497.25. </font>

djj6835 11-17-2007 11:55 AM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
where are the videos on the site? i click vids but it says there arent any up yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Make sure you are at leggopoker.com and not legopoker.com

craigthedeac 11-17-2007 12:12 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
So far I can see the first frame of the video's at LeggoPoker. The rest of the video won't load.

If I'm prompted to login, no pages will load afterwards just the green background.

The "remember me" doesn't work.

I'm on XP using and old version of IE. So far i'm really disappointed [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you still having these issues? Both are surprising, please PM me if so.

Sorry for any confusion with Lego/Leggo, we will have a redirect on Lego --&gt; Leggo soon.

If anyone is having any issues they can PM me or any of the other guys, or contact us through the site.

thac 11-17-2007 12:15 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
lol "disconcerting". CS, you're my hero.

kenadams 11-17-2007 01:15 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
I just watched a sick pot...the two big stacks on the table were both very loose donks. obviously someone slightly overplayed his two pair in this situation for 300bb :-)... after the loss he open shoved preflop 10 hands in a row without anyone calling him :/... also note UTG limping JJ :-)

Party Poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $351.11
UTG: $307.08
MP: $32.50
Hero (CO): $136.60
BTN: $104.87
SB: $97.18

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG calls $1, 2 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $5</font>, SB calls $4.50, BB calls $4, UTG calls $4

Flop: ($20) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 Players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $16</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $32</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $346.11 and is All-In</font>, UTG calls $302.08 and is All-In, 2 folds

Turn: ($672.16) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($672.16) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $672.16 Pot ($3 Rake)
BB showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Sevens full of Queens) and LOST (-$307.08 NET)
UTG showed J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a full house, Jacks full of Sevens) and WON $669.16 (+$362.08 NET)

FoldEqu1ty 11-17-2007 01:16 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Everybody's gone loco. I'm playing 18/9 this session.



Party Poker, $2/$4 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $300
UTG: $329.50
CO: $457.26
BTN: $398.20
Hero (SB): $402

Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB)
3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16</font>, BB calls $12

Flop: ($32) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $26</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $52</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $386 and is All-In</font>, BB calls $232 and is All-In

Turn: ($600) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($600) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $600 Pot ($104.50 Rake)
BB showed J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Sevens) and LOST (-$300 NET)
Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a pair of Sevens) and WON $495.50 (+$195.50 NET)

Shizzle12345 11-17-2007 01:16 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
last 48k hands im running 7.5 ptbb/100 at 1/2 2/4 and 3/6. FK YEAH. (over 8ptbb if you include RB). I hope to keep this up another 50k hands. cant show graph, because somehow my ongame hands wont import in my new database. Its prolly because im a lagfish running redhot haha, but it still feels great if you consider that i was barely winning at 25NL 6months ago.

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 01:49 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Everybody's gone loco. I'm playing 18/9 this session.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, everybody.

bubaloo 11-17-2007 02:19 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
i has quads. my plan was to call flop and c/r all turns, but this is the worst turn card, would another line be better? c/c..donk river?

Pacific Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.5
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $29.72
CO: $71.84
Button: $35.62
SB: $50.25
Bub: $50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Bub is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">Bub raises to $2.5</font>, CO calls, SB folds.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($5.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Bub bets $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $10</font>, Bub calls.

Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($25.5, 2 players)
Bub checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Bub raises to $27</font>, CO folds.
Uncalled bets: $17 returned to Bub.

Results:
Final pot: $60.23

spivey 11-17-2007 02:20 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
He had nothing, don't sweat it bubaloo.

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 02:25 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Min 4 bet flop?

Shizzle12345 11-17-2007 02:29 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
http://www.pokerhand.org/?1709261
Dont bluff me boys and girls

2 tagfishes called me a moron on a heater today lol.

manupod 11-17-2007 02:30 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
jesus i'm running bad this morning. cmon, let me hit a heater or something one time?!

carrotsnake 11-17-2007 02:37 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
&lt;3 thac. Just cuz I'm edumcated doesn't mean you can make fun of me [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 02:40 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Where are you from carrot?

carrotsnake 11-17-2007 02:41 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
atlanta, go to GT

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 02:42 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Ah okay, really couldn't place your accent.

Clayton 11-17-2007 02:45 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
yeah, carrot and myself have mastered the accent of southern sophistication + huge nerd

carrotsnake 11-17-2007 02:47 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
totally

Shizzle12345 11-17-2007 02:47 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
he was 3betting me like crazy, PF af was like 5, standard? :S

STAGE #821029079: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $4 - 2007-11-17 13:43:53 (ET)
Table: RIFLEMAN DR (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - TOTIS2121 ($366 in chips)
Seat 3 - AXELF82 ($475.24 in chips)
Seat 4 - PRISONRIOT ($300.04 in chips)
Seat 5 - MRBAANG ($319 in chips)
Seat 6 - SJAAKIIE ($1026 in chips)
Seat 1 - BERBATOVBUL ($618.13 in chips)
AXELF82 - Posts small blind $2
PRISONRIOT - Posts big blind $4
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SJAAKIIE [9c Ac]
MRBAANG - Folds
SJAAKIIE - Raises $16 to $16
BERBATOVBUL - Folds
TOTIS2121 - Folds
AXELF82 - Raises $55 to $57
PRISONRIOT - Folds
SJAAKIIE - Calls $41
*** FLOP *** [8d 4d As]
AXELF82 - Checks
SJAAKIIE - Checks
*** TURN *** [8d 4d As] [7s]
AXELF82 - Bets $90
SJAAKIIE - Calls $90
*** RIVER *** [8d 4d As 7s] [Qc]
AXELF82 - Bets $199
SJAAKIIE - Calls $199
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AXELF82 - Shows [Qs Ad] (Two Pair, aces and queens)
SJAAKIIE - Mucks
AXELF82 Collects $692.50 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($696) | Rake ($3) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
Board [8d 4d As 7s Qc]
Seat 1: BERBATOVBUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: TOTIS2121 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: AXELF82 (small blind) won Total ($692.50) HI:($692.50) with Two Pair, aces and queens [Qs Ad - B:As,P:Ad,P:Qs,B:Qc,B:8d]
Seat 4: PRISONRIOT (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: MRBAANG Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: SJAAKIIE HI: [Mucked] [9c Ac]

keikiwai 11-17-2007 02:50 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
he was 3betting me like crazy, PF af was like 5, standard? :S

STAGE #821029079: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $4 - 2007-11-17 13:43:53 (ET)
Table: RIFLEMAN DR (Real Money) Seat #2 is the dealer
Seat 2 - TOTIS2121 ($366 in chips)
Seat 3 - AXELF82 ($475.24 in chips)
Seat 4 - PRISONRIOT ($300.04 in chips)
Seat 5 - MRBAANG ($319 in chips)
Seat 6 - SJAAKIIE ($1026 in chips)
Seat 1 - BERBATOVBUL ($618.13 in chips)
AXELF82 - Posts small blind $2
PRISONRIOT - Posts big blind $4
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to SJAAKIIE [9c Ac]
MRBAANG - Folds
SJAAKIIE - Raises $16 to $16
BERBATOVBUL - Folds
TOTIS2121 - Folds
AXELF82 - Raises $55 to $57
PRISONRIOT - Folds
SJAAKIIE - Calls $41
*** FLOP *** [8d 4d As]
AXELF82 - Checks
SJAAKIIE - Checks
*** TURN *** [8d 4d As] [7s]
AXELF82 - Bets $90
SJAAKIIE - Calls $90
*** RIVER *** [8d 4d As 7s] [Qc]
AXELF82 - Bets $199
SJAAKIIE - Calls $199
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AXELF82 - Shows [Qs Ad] (Two Pair, aces and queens)
SJAAKIIE - Mucks
AXELF82 Collects $692.50 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($696) | Rake ($3) | Jackpot Rake ($0.50)
Board [8d 4d As 7s Qc]
Seat 1: BERBATOVBUL Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: TOTIS2121 (dealer) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: AXELF82 (small blind) won Total ($692.50) HI:($692.50) with Two Pair, aces and queens [Qs Ad - B:As,P:Ad,P:Qs,B:Qc,B:8d]
Seat 4: PRISONRIOT (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: MRBAANG Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: SJAAKIIE HI: [Mucked] [9c Ac]

[/ QUOTE ]

this is #2 for the day right?

only 1 more after this one imo

[ QUOTE ]
Also, only 3 separate hand history brags a day. you can clump them all together in one post but don't spam the forum with 15 separate hand histories of winnings/losses


[/ QUOTE ]

spivey 11-17-2007 02:51 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
That's a fold pf and on river, Shizzle.

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 02:56 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Yeah, fold or shove, you don't want A9s taking a flop in a big pot, in or out of position.

keikiwai 11-17-2007 02:57 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, fold or shove, you don't want A9s taking a flop in a big pot, in or out of position.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's not true, A9s is the ideal hand for a big pot, but it should be big because it is multiway, not because you are calling a re-raise

Daddy Warbucks 11-17-2007 03:01 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
Huh? You're never that happy hitting your A because you can't take a lot of heat, and having 9 as your TP is even uglier. You're then counting on flopping your nut draw, and you'll have to either give up on a big pot or bluff a lot of rivers when you miss.

manupod 11-17-2007 03:04 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
blah down $1000 in like 700 hands of 1/2 and 2/4 today, just missing everything, get no cards and getting run over. Going shopping now to spend some serious cash...and then come back and earn some more at the tables. I might not make $30k on the month anymore [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

keikiwai 11-17-2007 03:06 PM

Re: SSNL [cheese] thread: NOV Pt 2 (nc)
 
[ QUOTE ]
Huh? You're never that happy hitting your A because you can't take a lot of heat, and having 9 as your TP is even uglier. You're then counting on flopping your nut draw, and you'll have to either give up on a big pot or bluff a lot of rivers when you miss.

[/ QUOTE ]

the idea is that in a multiway pot you can win hudge monies with a flush - but obviously this will not happen very often, so you cannot afford to put a lot of money in pf (no calling pfrrs for example)


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