Re: Massive Hero fold
 

results?

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
results?

[/ QUOTE ]

Button called with top 2 and of course BB had the clubs. At the time I was so sure that I would have even folded if the pot was 50BBs or 75BBs. It was that clear to me. Still, I realized I had to sweat for a couple seconds of the time after I folded and before the cards were shown down. Because I sweated it, I figured hmm, maybe it's not worth the satisfaction of making a tight fold and I really should just pay off. Even though I'm never good.

I think what it is is there's a pyhrric victory to "owning" BB here by not paying him off even 1BB when he makes his hand, and that psychological boost may be why we make hero folds. But the tilt that might be induced by the bizarre scenario in which our hand would have been good could outweigh that, thus arguing for a call here. Hard to say, really.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

How does the fact that BB bet/3bet the flop factor into your feeling that he must be on a flush draw?

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
How does the fact that BB bet/3bet the flop factor into your feeling that he must be on a flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the notes tab on this player it said "likes to jam draws"

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

That was a fun hand. Glad I caught that club on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nice fold btw... I thought for sure both you guys were on straights. KJ lol.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

This is a good fold. Protected pot, BB's hand is face up, yada yada. I don't even think it's really that close, though obviously it's a pretty unique situation.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
That was a fun hand. Glad I caught that club on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nice fold btw... I thought for sure both you guys were on straights. KJ lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol really, BB was you? BTW if you had tried a river c/r, I would have checked, hoping button checked behind. If he bet, you may get 2BBs out of him, but still 0 out of me.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

It's a good fold because this really isn't exploitable, even if BB is a good player. I can't see a hand where BB would get to the river on this line and then try and bluff both of you out of the pot. There are times where good players will try and bluff other good players out of big pots, knowing they have a third player beat, but this isn't one of those times.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That was a fun hand. Glad I caught that club on the river. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Nice fold btw... I thought for sure both you guys were on straights. KJ lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol really, BB was you? BTW if you had tried a river c/r, I would have checked, hoping button checked behind. If he bet, you may get 2BBs out of him, but still 0 out of me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that was me, Jc 5c amirite?

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

Note to SB: Next time, have QTo, be playing against 2+2ers, and donk the river when the flush comes in. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
Note to SB: Next time, have QTo, be playing against 2+2ers, and donk the river when the flush comes in. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

You won't have QTo here if you take that line.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

I find it fascinating that a good fold on the river is the issue here when the flop action was retarded.

I find it fascinating that you can make a 1 bb fold and spew twice on the flop

That being said, I would make a call on the river when I know I am beat at these odds so I guess I have to honour your discipline to details.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

Knowing who villain is I'd say that calling the river is much more retarded than jamming the flop. Calling the river costs you 1 BB. Jamming the flop prolly only cost you a fraction of a BB.

Altho I hate jamming the flop

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

btw, never ever iso raise with queen high!

edit:ok, suited QTS QJS, but noch QTo or QJo ...

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw, never ever iso raise with queen high!


[/ QUOTE ]

NEVER OPEN RAISE AA UTG!!!

Stop handing out one liners like that. Preflop is close and depends on players behind. Limping, calling and raising can all be good here IMO.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

Joker--

You're a strong experienced player, so this comment isn't directed at you, but I'd like to point out that making personal psychological considerations (tilt, moral victory, etc.) primary here is usually an excuse for sloppy poker thinking. It's one of the things it took me the longest to recognize about my own poker psychology.

(Which is not to say that if a certain play will cause you to go on crazy monkey tilt 1.7% of the time you shouldn't take that into account... but most often, especially among 2+2ers, it's that they lack a certain willingness to confront certain poker situations.)

--Nate

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
btw, never ever iso raise with queen high!

edit:ok, suited QTS QJS, but noch QTo or QJo ...

[/ QUOTE ]

I often iso QTo and QJo

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

I do too.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We need at least 33% equity on the flop if we want to cap

[/ QUOTE ]

Why 33%? There are 4 to the turn, so hero pays 25% of the pot. If he gets back more than those 25% on average capping shows profit.

-Fluffy_Shark

[/ QUOTE ]


with no flush draw on the flop, sure, go ahead and cap.

with the flush draw, our hand kinda sucks.


I'm not sure I raise the flop in the first place, but whatever.

It's online, people are retarded, don't fold the river.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

All right, I got to this thread late but am going to describe a scenario where BB could have a worse hand and could be leading the river without being a moron:

Let's say he has a set of 3's. He plays fast on the flop because he's probably best. But, with Button and SB both apparently drawing and with CO capping the flop anyway, he decides to check and await developments on the turn when the obvious straight hits. And Button wakes up -- uh oh! -- but BB still has to chase a boat and also he's not really certain he's beat.

The river is no help, but he doesn't feel like paying 4 BBs to showdown versus two straights, so, without really thinking he has any folding equity, he fires a bet into the pot to represent the flush and to try to get a 1 BB showdown.

So there! (And then, of course, there is also the small chance that BB is making a desperation stab because he sees $250 in the pot or is betting out of irritation at having been taking along for the ride on the turn.)

Anyway, some good players have praised this fold, but I couldn't make it.

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's online, people are retarded, don't fold the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Efficacy is retarded?

But I agree. If I didnt know villain was Efficacy I couldnt fold either. Given that villain is sane I think its a standard muck

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

Why some people don't want to raise the flop?

Re: Massive Hero fold
 

There is no way you can fold this, I can't even really imagine folding here considering you only havce to make this call correctly less than 1/20 times to come out ahead. I agree your almost certainly paying off a flush but in sklanksy's book 'small stakes hold'em' he says "paying off a better hand is a small mistake, but folding to a worse hand in a big pot is an absolute disaster"

given the math you just can't fold here no matter how much it hurts to see villain flip up the flush after you pay off.