Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Can u give some details abwt yourself plz, like what games you play, site, when u went pro, how much you make per month/year? abit personal but its hard to relate to what she is saying not knowing how much money you make.

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Wasn't sure I should respond to this. I feel the thread is going off course. So one response only. Then back to the original topic.

Most of my income is from sports betting not poker. Poker I usually play 10-20 or 20-40 limit except Tuesdays when I either play in a NL game or a 50-100 limit. Online I play 5-10 / 10-20 limit between Feb-Aug. The rest of the year I play 1-2 to 5-10 limit.

I started in the early 90s and got better every year. Not sure when I went pro. The amount of money involved was enough that I'd consider myself pro in 97. I graduated law school in 99 so when I turned down my articling position I was committed to this as a career. So definitely pro by 00.

How much is something I never answer. My usual answer is more than a paperboy and less than Bill Gates. I don't like to talk about specific numbers. I drive a Porsche, my rent is $2700/month, I own a condo paid for in cash on the Mediterranean. Based on that you should have some context.

Now back to the original topic. I didn't mean to derail this. The point of my original post was to simply say that as long as the GF / wife benefits from the poker playing she won't complain. I just bought by Gf a $1900 Prada coat and a $850 Burberry coat because she couldn't decide which she liked better. How can she then turn around and tell me to get a job?

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No wonder you talk about poker being easy playing 20/40 limit. You kill me.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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It isn't even that they want them, Lots of people convent luxury items. Growing up in a middle income household I always wanted nicer things than what my family could afford. Had I gone off and achieved a $75k/year income I would have been happy. But once you go and start experiencing the lifestyle possible from a much larger income you can't go back to living off $75K and still be happy.

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I agree. Money doesn't buy happiness, but lack of money makes for incredible sadness. Especially when you have had it. Hard to start over at ground zero.

My friend has lost all concept of working for money. And he has gotten himself into a bigger hole every month with no end in sight. Plus, he has no desire to work 50 hours a week at an office job for what he deems to be little pay.

Gambling (which is what day-trading really is) has devoured his soul -- perhaps permanently.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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My friend has lost all concept of working for money. And he has gotten himself into a bigger hole every month with no end in sight. Plus, he has no desire to work 50 hours a week at an office job for what he deems to be little pay.

Gambling (which is what day-trading really is) has devoured his soul -- perhaps permanently.

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I know someone like this too, ex-day trader.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Someone who plays poker needs to first establish that they have money before the topic of occupation comes up.

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This will land a ton of gold digging chicks.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

My girlfriend is very supportive to the point that i can tell her about bad poker days and she will understand and tell me stuff like "you know you just got few unlucky beats/situations, you know you are good and will win in the long run".

She likes the game, i taught her to play and now she plays play money on several sites.When we are at home she often wants to play HU between us and really enjoys it.By the way, on our first date it turned out that one of her favorite movies is Rounders (i didn't tell her what i do before the date).

She even started reading HOH1 and already halfway through it.
She knows i play poker professionally and understands that it's a game of skill.

Recently i took her to a poker club, she sat near me and i explained to her about some moves and hands process, she liked the experience very much.

In 2 weeks we fly to Carribeans for Carribean Poker Classic, she will be there to support me.

I feel lucky that i met her and love her a lot.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

What is so bad about a 'traditional job'? You get paid decently well if you have some smarts, you are building up transferable skills, you learn socialization skills, etc.

The one thing I notice in all these threads is that it appears that there aren't many poker pros that have kids. That changes the responsibility level by x times infinity. You aren't playing with your bankroll anymore but the family bankroll and if you go bust, they go bust.

These threads are always started by someone in their 20's who thinks being a poker pro (or whatever) has allowed them to escape the death sentence that has imposed on their friends.

A job ain't bad or a death sentence. It is a lot more than money. For those that work just for money, it can be sad, but there is much more to life. I like the people I work with and don't see it as drudgery.

/ramble over.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

Kids do change everything. I have very little interest in having children though so that works out. I also date girls that are much younger than me so they are not really keen on having children at that age either. I guess the hope is that by the time someone chooses to take on the responsibility of having children they should have enough in savings that going bust isn't a real concern.

I'm not sure if a job is a death sentence but a job does consume enough time that there is no way it wouldn't have a devastating impact on quality of life. Without working I am still falling behind on things I want to do. There is no way to give up 50 hours a week and not suffer for it.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Kids do change everything. I have very little interest in having children though so that works out.

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That may change. We have all been certain about things in our life and then reversed course (or at least I have).

A job does take a lot of time. And it does infringe on just say going to India for two weeks because you feel like it.

I have had similar thoughts on why I work at a job as hard as I do. Life on this planet is limited and I am going to end up working for the grand majority of it.

But, there is a peace of mind that comes with security. And with twin boys on the way, I have to think of more than myself nowadays.

It is kind of neat to get away from that totally self-interest that consumed me. Hopefully I will become a better person for it.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

some people need security, stable pay, piece of mind and some people need risk, adventure and never knowing what tomorrow may bring. thats just how people are. you do not have to work 50 hours a week for security either. get a phd you can just be a student for the rest of your life publishing crap no one reads for a steady paycheck. my mentor in graduate school was on campus two days a week for six hours and at home writing a book for the rest for a nice salary of 85k in lovely NC.

golfnut i don't mean to be a dick here but it sounds like you went down the road of pro poker player and failed and now you think everyone else will too but you are wrong. just because you like security, steady pay, and piece of mind for your upcoming kids doesn't mean others do too. my grandfather went broke in business for himself three times with four kids before he finally got it right with a service station convenience store which has been running since 1954 and has more then kept my dad's family well off. my grandfather use to always say that no matter what happens the most important thing is learning how to get up once you failed and try again.

also you cannot be scared to try something you feel is right either. i have a masters degree but i plan on not using and playing poker for now cause working for city government doesn't pay all that much even in the longterm. yes i may fail at playing poker and i may never make it to HSNL or MSNL for that matter but i bet i can make a decent living from it and when i get tired of it i guarantee i can go into business for myself whether it be a cstore like my family or a hotel, or electrical contracting with my brother in law. all that matters is that i will be able to get up when i fail and try again.

on the subject of kids, you can play poker and support a family it is not that difficult. it really is not much different then running your own business however some people cannot stomach that their entire family's future is riding on their sole ability to be successful. they had much rather settle for a steady paycheck in exchange for shifting that burden to someone else or some company which is all you are doing by working for someone or some company. i think this is what golfnut has come to realize in himself but he doesn't realize that this is not for everyone but it is for the vast majority. he is just on the wrong forum to find that majority.

i wish you all luck in your future endeavors whatever they may be. i also urge each of you to find what kind of person you are as identified in this post and make sure you take that route in your pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness.

Mr_Pathetic

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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golfnut i don't mean to be a dick here but it sounds like you went down the road of pro poker player and failed and now you think everyone else will too but you are wrong.

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I have never been a poker pro. Have played for many hours and once I relied on it heavily while semi-employed. But the most I have ever won was $5k a month. I don't feel comfortable playing bigger stakes.

I have been 'following' poker for 18 years (geez, half my life!). I have seen these posts over and over and over and becoming a poker pro. Escalated during the online era. And I have personally known a few who have gone down that route, profited wildly, only to have a severe downturn and then go into serious depression.

It is only my dumb opinion that becoming a poker a pro in your 20's is super -EV. You are much better off getting a job for 10 years, developing a skill, a network, etc. and then take your shot when you have something to fall back on. It is not only that failed poker pros have nothing to fall back on, but their concept of money is incredibly skewed. Making $1,000 a week for having to be in an office for 40 hours a week sounds like hell for someone used to waking up whenever they want.

Of course, YMMV. And I don't wish failure on anyone in the world. It is just pure mathemtatics that most will fail.

Cheers

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

I don't believe professional gambler and security are mutually exclusive. If someone has been making a living gambling for 5-10 years they should have plenty of savings.

I'd say it is very similar to being a professional athlete in the sense that something could happen that would bring your income source to an end. You still have all your savings.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

this is probably going to sound zany but i feel that along the path of life there are signs to point you in the right direction but they are subtle and you must be keen on picking them up. so far i have followed the ones i have been able to see. a good example of this is sitting in undergrad and hearing the dir of the graduate program ran by the poli sci dept. say in class that when you apply to graduate school they do not care about your total gpa but more about what you did in the your last 2-4 semesters. i had not even considered grad school due to my poor performance during the beginning of undergrad but my last 3 semesters were 3.5GPA or better. this led me to apply for grad school and i was accepted into the MPA (public admin) program.

that program changed the way i think about life. it completely changed me intellectually forever. without completing that program i would have never known what it is like to try to do something you view as near impossible, stick it out, have faith in yourself, and complete it. this was all foreign to me as nothing had ever challenged me like this before. i became addicted to this and i will forever have to feed this addiction with whatever i do in life for a career or i will be empty and void of any fulfillment. so it is not just poker i choose to feed this addiction with. anything i feel is near impossible for me to do will suffice. so when poker stops feeding this addiction which it will when i hit the wall i cannot break through it will be time to move on. i think the next near impossible thing for me to do is PhD. if i had the $$ i would do it right now but I need to get out of the student loan debt i have now before i go back. coastal resource management would be very fun...

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

Wow...a 2+2 thread that has evolved into what I feel is a very worthwhile discussion.

Many good points from both sides...kudos.

FWIW, I may add my two-cents later...I've just returned from Biloxi and am just catching up on life.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

@pathetic, you got a long way to go then, since ur still at NL25. Gl [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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@pathetic, you got a long way to go then, since ur still at NL25. Gl [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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lol qft.
i was offered staking for NL100 (guy thinks i can beat it but idk) but i want to get there on my own money.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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I don't believe professional gambler and security are mutually exclusive. If someone has been making a living gambling for 5-10 years they should have plenty of savings.

I'd say it is very similar to being a professional athlete in the sense that something could happen that would bring your income source to an end. You still have all your savings.

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Yes, I guess the best all worlds would be to have enough saved so you don't have to work OR play poker to pay the bills.

The variables are how many years you will live and the amount you need each year. If one needs $200k a year to live on, then you need savings of ~$4mm if you want to live off just the interest. Quite a lot to get to on work or poker!

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

cool thanks for posting this swede, it was interesting for me to read cause i live in SF too, and have a girlfriend who works 9 - 5. The main difference between my situation and yours is that I DO play poker solely when she's at work, never travel for poker (beyond bay101), and I'M the one who does all the cooking...it sounds like you are a bit spoiled to be honest [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

She sometimes gets flack when she tells people what I do, but she doesn't care. I don't really care either, I'm happy with my situation and I love what I do.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Being a career poker player in your 20's is -EV. You are giving up the best time in your life to learn a skill that will translate into guaranteed dollars in your 30's and 40's and beyond.

Your girlfriend may tolerate for awhile, but wait until (if) you get married, have kids and a mortgage. You will want that 401k and health insurance and days paid off. Having a job ain't that bad.

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I agree that there are a lot of upsides to having a job over being a poker pro in your 20s, but I don't realy think EV is one of them for a lot of people.

There are many hundreds of 2p2ers in their 20s who are earning $100 - $500/hour online. I think in the long run they'll have more money than their counterparts who have normal jobs in the 40 - 50k starting range who have "skills" and health insurance and 401ks..

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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There are many hundreds of 2p2ers in their 20s who are earning $100 - $500/hour online.

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I call serious BS on that statements. There are not hundreds of 20 something 2p2ers earning the equivalent of $200,000 to $1,000,000 a year online (assuming they are playing the equivalent of a full-time job).

Try maybe 10. And for those that can do this over a 8-10 year span, perhaps 2.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

- they don't play 40 hours a week

Yes, there are 100s of 2p2ers 20 somethings earning 200k+/year

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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There are many hundreds of 2p2ers in their 20s who are earning $100 - $500/hour online.

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I call serious BS on that statements. There are not hundreds of 20 something 2p2ers earning the equivalent of $200,000 to $1,000,000 a year online (assuming they are playing the equivalent of a full-time job).

Try maybe 10. And for those that can do this over a 8-10 year span, perhaps 2.

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Thought I'd pipe in here...

golf - you're applying your perception of what it is to "make a good living" universally, and you really cant do that.

Perhaps you haven't had as much luck in poker as much of the rest of 2+2, but it really isn't very hard to make 200k+ per year. And once you have done that, if you have the discipline, it is very easy to continue earning that kind of $.


On top of that - With all of this extra money you've made, you can invest, start side businesses, etc. As a poker player you are very used to taking calculated risks, and you can apply this skill to almost every other area of your life. You are also used to surviving off of nothing more than your own effort - something that scares the hell out of most of the middle class.


I'm sure your career has worked out well for you, but your path is not necessarily the best universally.


I will agree with you though, that the skillset that you develop to play poker professionally does not help you very much in the "real world". It definitely prepares you for the mental ups-and-downs of being self-employed, or investing, but another set of skills is definitely needed if you want to be employable. ****The players who are capable of making 200k+/yr (mostly) realize this and use their wealth to create more options for themselves**** A couple of the people who have contributed to this thread would fall under that category.

And for this type of player, (bankroll conscious, long-term winner, invests extra money) the risk of going bust is not even close to the risk an "average joe" has of being laid off. Especially someone with a job requiring a very narrow set of skills who is not easily re-employed (dye-casting for example).
Just my 2c.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

just go through small and medium stakes november threads and you see people who make that kind of money. Also check the monthly graphs threads, ALOT of 20-30 y olds who are making tons of money. If you invest a ton of time in it, and you try to track down your leaks like crazy then you can def earn a ton of cash .. But most pple dont invest the required amount of time.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Perhaps you haven't had as much luck in poker as much of the rest of 2+2, but it really isn't very hard to make 200k+ per year. And once you have done that, if you have the discipline, it is very easy to continue earning that kind of $.

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You are out of your mind if you think that many people make $200k a year. I went to the medium stakes and there were some who made the equivalent $18k-$24k in one month. Big deal. They will lose that the next month.

But arguing against poker here would be like going to Wisconsin and saying how cheese is bad for you and hardens your arteries. Have a whole group of people here whose self-interest is in believing poker is a sustainable and viable career decision.

I have seen these people come and go over the last 15 years. And even if they win, many can't handle the poker 'lifestyle'. It seems glamarous at first, especially compared to their counterparts who are working a full-time job, but it becomes a grind, and an unfulfilling one at that.

As to my own poker skills, I am way above average.

Cheers

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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- they don't play 40 hours a week

Yes, there are 100s of 2p2ers 20 somethings earning 200k+/year

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They don't play 40 hours a week because it is not a sustainable win rate. Of course, in short-term variance, anyone can make it. Geez, I won $500 in 30 minutes the other day. Maybe I could say I am a $1000 an hour winner.

Please provide proof that there are hundreds of 2p2ers making $200k a year.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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You are out of your mind if you think that many people make $200k a year.

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I believe it is quite easy to make $200k when you factor in loyalty programs.

It is hard to judge how many people actually do. Some of the threads I read lead me to believe that while the potential is there for anyone with average intelligence that nevertheless most people don't.

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Have a whole group of people here whose self-interest is in believing poker is a sustainable and viable career decision.

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I started gambling in 91-92 and got progressively more serious about it till somewhere around 98 the numbers were such that I'd have to be insane to pick anything but this as a career. So I don't need to believe it is a sustainable income source. I think after 10 years I can say with a fair amount of confidence that it is a sustainable income source for myself.

That being said I believe the internet has set a lot of people up for failure. Online poker has given a bunch of guys in their early 20s a lot of false confidence. Everyone thinks the game is getting harder in the last 2-3 years and it might be relative to when they started playing. Most online players entered poker when it was at an all time with respect to softness. So I do believe a lot of people in their early 20s are going to screw up their lives because of it.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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There are many hundreds of 2p2ers in their 20s who are earning $100 - $500/hour online.

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I call serious BS on that statements. There are not hundreds of 20 something 2p2ers earning the equivalent of $200,000 to $1,000,000 a year online (assuming they are playing the equivalent of a full-time job).

Try maybe 10. And for those that can do this over a 8-10 year span, perhaps 2.

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your have really lost it here. i know a few folks that do not even post on this site making $150 an hour multitabling NL200. it can be done and can be done for millions of hands if you can handle it.

try this, a good player can earn 5PTBB/100. now plug that into this formula: (PTBB/100)(2/100)(BigBlind)(#ofhands) and that equals your take. so for example. I beat NL25 for 7.5 with huge tilt problems 20k hands. Could I run hot during this, of course, winrates aren't even solid till a few 100k hands. but you can expect 7.5 +-2 I would guess. So if I beat NL25 for 5PTBB my formula looks like this (5)(2/100)(.25)(20000)=500. I can play that many hands in two weeks.

Now look at someone who plays around 30k hands at NL200 every month and here is there take. (5)(2/100)(2)(30000)=6,000. Now that is a decent chunk of change and those who can attain this winrate will move up. the mediocre players who stay here can expect 2-3. now (2)(2/100)(2)(30000)=2400. Now keep in mind those who make only 2-3 often play 6+ tables and put in huge numbers of hands every month.

Now to the ones who move to NL400-NL1000. A good solid player can earn 2PTBB here. A really good player can do 4+ easily. So someone doing 2PTBB at NL400: (2)(2/100)(4)(30000)= 4800 or 57600 per year. Someone at NL1000: (2)(2/100)(10)(30000)= 12,000 or 144,000 per year. Now keep in mind I have some datamined hands where some of the decent regs have made 4PTBB+ over 55k hands.

Now to NL2000. A very solid player here can do 2 PTBB. Now formula for this guy playing 30k hands a month. (2)(2/100)(20)(30000)=24,000. Now thats 24000*12= 288,000.

So I hope this helps you see exactly how much money people are making. So if you think only 2 people can do this year in and year out your nuts. Maybe only 10 can do it at NL5000, I'll give you that.

NOW think of how long it takes to get in 30,000 hands a month. Definitely NOT 40 hours a week. I can do 1000 a day on 3-4 tables in three hours. So it is not unreasonble to think that someone can play 2k hands a day for 28 days a month. I play six days a week, 1000 hands a day. So most full timers prob avg around 40-50k hands a month. I left this at 30k to deliberately skew the numbers. So people making these amounts are playing three hours a day over 30 days. I'll take $2400 a month for three hours of work a day.

Disclaimer: I used 2PTBB in a lot of equations here so you cannot go off and say no one can do five cause anyone with some good fundamentals and tilt management can crank out 2 in MSNL. Tilt management on those inevitable downswings from hell and breakeven stretches at such a small winrate will be crucial. also some people play 30k hands every two weeks and quite a few of these guys who play a ton of tables for 2PTBB get in anywhere from 30-100k hands per month.

EDIT: if you think this formula is BS try it on a PT database. It works with very good accuracy.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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- they don't play 40 hours a week

Yes, there are 100s of 2p2ers 20 somethings earning 200k+/year

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They don't play 40 hours a week because it is not a sustainable win rate. Of course, in short-term variance, anyone can make it. Geez, I won $500 in 30 minutes the other day. Maybe I could say I am a $1000 an hour winner.

Please provide proof that there are hundreds of 2p2ers making $200k a year.

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I'm not sure how to do this other than naming people who I know who are earning this much money, which I won't do. Of all my poker friends, I know maybe 10 people who are making this much. I know just a tiny fraction of 2p2 and am part of the SH limit world, which is less lucrative than NL. Therefore I assume that there are 100s or 1000s who are also earning that much outside the group that I am friends with.

Also, here are some numbers.

I play between 5/10 and 100/200. I'm a good player, but there are many who are better than me, and on average, I earn $.75/hand including rakeback.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

A story about one of my best friends who I met in business school. He started day trading. He turned $5k into $500,000 in about 6 months. My first job I made $62k and that was working 50 hour weeks. So, he made in one year what it would take me eight years (at the same salary to earn).

And he got up whenever he wanted and did whatever he wanted. He was obsessed with checking stocks and would be on stock and day-trading message boards and everyone was making hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Markets and his timing soured. He started losing money and his position was down to $250k. Instead of looking at it as a $245k gain, he viewed as a $250k loss and got more depressed. He took even more gambles and his position was worth $70k. He viewed it as the end of the world. He didn't even care about the $70k and thought of the $430k loss.

Shortly thereafter, he had ZERO in his account. He tells me that if he had got to $1mm, he would have quit, but he was never going to stop.

He did nothing for months and just rued about his losses. Meanwhile, the rest of the MBA class was working up the career ladder.

He started working for his old man. But he couldn't stand having to be there at 9am and work a full-day and make only a few hundred a day. They got into a huge fight and parted ways.

He resorted to taking cash off all his credit cards to live. He constantly applies for credit cards and finally one somehow got approved and he immediately took cash advances. He is probably in debt $100k and hasn't worked in nine years.

It wasn't that he took a shot that was bad. It was the corruption of money that killed his soul. For him to view $70,000 as meaningless when that would take someone saving $10,000 a year for 6 years to get to (assuming interest) is unhealthy.

He is borderline suicidal and views himself as damaged goods. This story, imho, is tranferable to the internet poker player generation. There will definitely be some winners, but the majority will be remains on the sideroad of life.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

day trading is far far far riskier than poker.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

your friend sounds like grimstarr.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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day trading is far far far riskier than poker.

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I absolutely agree. It had more to do with the value of money and the work ethic than anything else which seems very comparable.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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It wasn't that he took a shot that was bad. It was the corruption of money that killed his soul. For him to view $70,000 as meaningless when that would take someone saving $10,000 a year for 6 years to get to (assuming interest) is unhealthy.

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I'm not sure if it is healthy or not but I agree with your friend. I realize objectively that $70k is a lot of money for most people. Every time I see the stats on avg income I realize just how warped my concept of money is. That being said if I was down to $70k I wouldn't care about it either. I couldn't afford to cover the basics for more then 6 months so I might as well go for it. If I bust out I'm no worse off than if I save the $70k.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

I believe your calcalations. There are some that can win. Over an 8 to 10 year period, there will be a handful. Plus, as King Henry here pointed out, the games are getting tougher. There aren't that many fish pouring in millions of dollars to keep that many sharks afloat.

I guess it comes down to my belief of poker as a -ev isn't only based on the career path. I live in Los Angeles and I literally see hundreds of actors who think they will be the next star. They labor at restaurants and any other gig to get by. Just like poker, the majority will not make it a career path. Difference is that they were not 'polluted' by making big money. They have a strong work ethic and don't see money as the holy grail.

I am only speaking here from personal experience and what I have witnessed over 18 years. Maybe I am out of touch with the new generation of Internet Pros, but I have seen the scene played out many times.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

golfnutt, your "daytrader" friend is not a trader, its obvious from your story that he's a degenerate gambler who probably got lucky in the .com bubble and then lost it in the bear market. Although I wouldn't recommend daytrading to most people, people with gambling problems will of course fail.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Plus, as King Henry here pointed out, the games are getting tougher.

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If you look at poker over the last 20 years the level of play currently is a joke. It is very easy to make money. My point was that a lot of these guys who think they can make a career out of it started after the level of play had already become so soft that they believe they are better players than they actually are. If the game goes back to the level of play present in the 90s the majority of them will become losing players.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

games are tougher then just one year ago. it used to be that 8PTBB was the norm instead of 5 but I think the games will always be profitable at a certain level for anyone. how far up that level is depends on a lot of things though. Before, anyone willing to invest a lot of time could make really good money and I do not feel that is not the case anymore. you're going to have to be very intelligent and possess some talent/six sensth or whatever you want to call it in order to make it to a significant level and win longterm. my talent is my memory. its the best skill i got.

like people trying to be actors, you can never know if you'll make it till you try but you got to be willing to know and come to grips when you are clearly not going to make it. it's like an addict coming to grips with his situation. it's very hard to do for anyone. kind of like me playing poker right now. i have set a goal for myself that is very achievable if i turn into anything decent and if i do not meet that goal come sept. 1st I will be making other plans.

i just don't to wake up working a job i hate for measly money wondering if i could have been great at something, i just got to know. knowing is better then not knowing for me.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

There's some good points made on both sides in this thread but there seems to be a reoccuring theme in the 'pro-gambler' camp...all of you curl your nose up at the thought of having to actually hold a job. I'm not saying poker isn't work or that everyone should want to have a day job....just that it is a common denominator.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

I think a job would be a serious issue psychologically. I spend money on stuff now that I would never spend if I had a job. It just feels different. With a job I'd be equating how much something costs with how many hours I'd have to work to get that money vs with gambling I consider how many bets. Winning money vs getting paid by an employer makes having a high burn rate easier to justify.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

Security from gambling is way way way higher than a job. I control my income and my fate. I work more if I want more money, work less when I don't. You on the other hand are merely at the hands of fate... New technological advances could render your skillset worthless. I meanwhile have a fleet of degenerates who have kept my business in business for centuries with steady growth in sight.

As an aside. LOLLERSKATES at golfclown and his estimates of what people make. 2p2ers I have personally met are the entirety of the community making 200k+ a year. Get a clue man.

Re: Dating a poker pro- From the perspective of a non-playing girlfrie
 

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Security from gambling is way way way higher than a job. I control my income and my fate. I work more if I want more money, work less when I don't.

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Keep telling yourself that. If you somehow always think that the more you gamble, the more money you will make, and you control your income, I want to know what color the sky is on your planet.