Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I agree. And I am not shy about betting the flop in general from SB or BB. In fact I like to C/R on occasion because there are sessions where it looks like I bet when I hit the flop and check when I don't...

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I think its fine to cr here at online fr. This will get bet a great majority of the time. Live is a different story, but with the right cast of characters it can be the right play.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
A friend and I were discussing this hand today.

Generic scenario - let's assume you've just sat down to a full ring table on Full Tilt.

You have A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB.
UTG+1 limps.
MP3 limps.
Button limps.
You check.

Flop is T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

What do you do and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not enough options given. You would like to check raise a late position bettor to make it two bets to others and knock them out. If the first player to your left bets then you are better off calling and donking the turn as those who called will then put another bet in, making the pot bigger and reducing their error of calling on the turn. By just calling you magnify their error by reducing their pot odds when you bet the turn.

This is online so you should have some stats. If one of the early players is aggressive I'd bet out on the flop and hope to get raised, knocking out the later players. If the early players have low aggression ratings and the late player is like 3.0, I'd go for the check raise.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I check-raise every time and consider it virtually the only play in online games without a read that my opponents are very passive. I just don't see flops getting checked through often enough to pass on a chance to let them bluff at it.

Note that in a pot this small I'm really not very concerned about protecting my hand, so I'm happy to take a little risk if it means getting somebody to put in a small bet drawing very thin. It's a rare event that I lose the parlay of:

a) it gets checked through
b) somebody who would have folded catches to beat me

however, the event of someone betting who wouldn't have called happens all the time. Easy check IMO.

-eric

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

Thanks for all the checking advice.

After considering all the profound analysis for checking with the intention of raising if there is a bet behind me; I still refuse to be the guy who checks top pair, and see it checked through behind me. I will never be that type of idiot, of which I have seen many, all losing players, make that slick move. Usually, I see it more often when they just slowplay AA, and then they show those losing AA to the table, by lifting that hand up to their forehead right next to the capital L...

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a flop get checked through in a multiway pot online.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a flop get checked through in a multiway pot online.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, then I'm check-raising 100%. If I'm just entering an online mid-stakes game for the first time in a year and it's my very first big blind hand, I'll bet/3-bet just to be sure (when it doubt, bet it out).

I don't play online anymore really, but when I did play mid-stakes full ring limit online a couple of years ago, I really couldn't remember the flop checking through multi-way then either.

Unfortunately, I think the mostly live players are drawing from their experiences playing with weak/passive opponents. And if they are good players, they will table select and find a table full of them, and then they'll be forced to bet their own hands. Unfortunately, you usually aren't as lucky online, and you'll have to adjust to opponents while still somewhat loose, are by and large aggressive.

This was my original complaint, but I admit that I expressed it horribly at first, and I tried to rectify and clarify what I meant. I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, I'm sorry. My intent was to say to the live players: "let the online players express their point of view", because I thought they would have a better perspective of the situation/landscape. Even I couldn't claim to give good accurate advice in online games.

I'm glad this thread has some progressive discussion. Live and online opponents play so differently that I almost think there should be two forums, one for online and one for live.

Garland

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

I play mainly low limits (2/4 and 3/6) on Full Tilt and have played live 4/8 (just don't have a game in my area right now).

Betting out in this spot protects out hand against weak draws because we only offer 5-1. So that's fine and as has been discussed plenty, the default play - with the 3bet option if raised.

Online the c/r is an option because I would think the button bets in this situation 90+ % of the time. However I don't think we need to c/r to protect our hand because good draws aren't folding anyway and can normally call correctly.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

raise preflop. bet the flop, turn, and river. quit writing extremely long posts about an uncommon spot where equity difference btwn different lines is less than .1 bb.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

Rasing preflop is bad.

Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question
 

With no reads I bet this every time

One thing that I havent seen mentioned yet is the fact that the button is less likely to bet it for us the more players there are in the pot, some people have stated that online you can rely on the button to bet almost everytime when checked to on the flop and this maybe true for some players but in my experience this is more likely with less people in the pot, although with multiple opponents there is more chance that somebody will bet it isn't necessarily gonna be the button. Which brings me to my next point, what happens those times we check and somebody bets in early position gets a caller or two and the actions back to us? Then our raise is only gonna succeed in bloating the pot with a vulnerable hand in bad position

Also one of the main arguments for checking is to get bets from hands that wouldn't necessarily call our lead but I wouldn't expect this to be such a problem in this situation especially since we're the BB our opponents will likely put us on a wide range and call anyway, we will even get raised a fair amount of the time too