Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

1. I don't think anyone should celebrate or condemn the decision reached by Stars, as the information uncovered by their investigation is not known (unless your cause for celebration is your dislike of Telscher, in which case you should celebrate). I think given the magnitude of this situation, Stars should make an effort to reveal some information while at the same time protecting any information that would reveal super-sophisticated investigative techniques that could be exploited in the future by cheaters.

2. Nor do I think Stars can be given credit for making a decision that benefits the integrity of the game while hurting their bottom line. It may well be the case that the best business decision, given the publicity this situation has received at least among hard-core Internet poker players, was to disqualify the winner rather than sweeping it under the rug.

3. Saying to multiaccounters that if you get caught multiaccounting you will not get the prize money in the tournament in which you were caught multiaccounting is a woefully inadequate deterrent. TheVoid lost a $2600 entry fee here, big deal. Was it worth it to take a shot at winning over $1 million? From a cost/benefit perspective (setting ethical considerations aside), undoubtedly. I think the only thing that is going to deter multiaccounting is turning over these cases for criminal prosecution. While this probably could be done in this case if the Villain(s) were playing in England, it will never be done in the United States due to Stars' questionable legal status/practices over here.

4. While far from a perfect solution, bumping up everyone one level is the least speculative and therefore best solution, which is why it is used by all sporting contests in similar situations. Sure, g-p could have won the whole thing, but perhaps another person would have been sitting in the same spot and been dealt the same cards. Short of a redo, which of course would be ridiculous, I think this is the best thing that can be done.

5. Those of you that believe that this situation should be kept as quiet as possible so as to minimize the effect to your own bottom line probably have good careers ahead of you as insider traders. Or perhaps you could work for the governments in China, Russia or Venezuela making decisions about what news should be broadcast to the masses. I think it's appalling that the poker media did not pick up on this story before, and will only do so now if Stars gives its blessing.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
the void busted me two spots away from the bubble, but i get nothing ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear Support,

I had heard the rumors that perhaps The_Void was a 2nd account of someone and blah blah blah. Now I heard that you guys have finished the investigation and determined he broke the rules, and his prize money will be redistributed.

Since I went relatively deep in this tournament, this was kind of good news to me, as I figured maybe I'd make some more money. I then read that everyone is simply moving up a spot on the pay scale.

To me, this does not seem fair.

Now, the person who got 415th place makes $2998.00 more than he had. ka$ino in 2nd place takes home an additional $677,548! However for all of us who cashed in an arbitrary (meaning non payscale bubble) spot, we don't make anything more. How is that fair?

I understand that this is your decision and it's almost certainly final. I know that this e-mail will not make you guys change your decision on how to distribute the $1.378M. I am mostly just curious why you think that is the fairest way to redistribute the money.

Wouldn't it be more fair to say, take the $1,378,330.50 and pretend like that's a whole new prize pool? And then 2nd place (who got 9.35% of the initial prize pool) would get 9.35% of the $1,378,330.50. And so on down the pay line. The problem with this is that you would be left with 18.39% (first place percentage) of the initial first place money. But you could simply do the same thing with that 18.39%. This would probably have to happen about 5 times or something until you are left with an arbitrary amount of money not worth distributing proportionally (say, $1). This way EVERYONE who cashed makes more money, and it's more indicative of their performance and luck from the tournament.

Again, I don't expect you guys to overturn your decision, I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

Sincerely,

A slightly upset Xaston

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

word up xaston

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

^^ this seems like a good idea.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

this is great for online poker

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is great for online poker

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it's terrible

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh, that's tournament poker.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

sigh now rays the officially bubbble [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh, that's tournament poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

I cashed as well, and I am not complaining. We gotta pick our battles.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

I came in 2153rd and want my share.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh, that's tournament poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? Seems like the opposite of tournament poker. Tournament poker pays an "unfairly" disproportionately small amount to the various bubble people and a disproportionately large amount to the people who last till JUST after each bubble breaks.

Moving everyone up a spot REWARDS people for bubbling.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

DID YOU SERIOUSLY ONLY FIND ONE??

ArHGHHGHGHG



<----------- Now exactly bubble boy. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

sick they caught him though, i'd like to hear more details about what gave him away.


edit:
e x i t o n l y (12:49:31 AM): i'm gonna be bubble boy
e x i t o n l y (12:49:33 AM): its gonna be sick
thayer (12:48:43 AM): you didnt bubble!
e x i t o n l y (12:50:35 AM): really?
e x i t o n l y (12:50:36 AM): no way
e x i t o n l y (12:51:19 AM): wtf
e x i t o n l y (12:51:21 AM): why did you say that
e x i t o n l y (12:51:27 AM): wtf wtf wtf
e x i t o n l y (12:51:30 AM): why on earth would you say that
thayer (12:50:05 AM): say what
thayer (12:50:15 AM): oh
thayer (12:50:19 AM): did you think you cashed
e x i t o n l y (12:51:54 AM): yes
e x i t o n l y (12:51:56 AM): after you said that
e x i t o n l y (12:51:59 AM): i looked, and i was confused
thayer (12:50:30 AM):
thayer (12:50:36 AM): it said you finished 416th
e x i t o n l y (12:52:19 AM): yes
e x i t o n l y (12:52:20 AM): i did
thayer (12:50:52 AM): so it wasnt the bubble
thayer (12:51:00 AM): i guess i failed to convey my tone
e x i t o n l y (12:52:33 AM): 414 paid....
thayer (12:51:02 AM): on the internet
e x i t o n l y (12:52:41 AM): how the [censored] isnt that a bubble
e x i t o n l y (12:52:43 AM): are you on crack
thayer (12:51:16 AM): it was like a you didnt get 415th

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

[/ QUOTE ]
Meh, that's tournament poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

I cashed as well, and I am not complaining. We gotta pick our battles.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, I'm not complaining or expecting anything to happen. I'm not gonna boycott Stars or anything. I just kinda think this isn't the fairest decision and I'm curious what they think.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

i bet thayer feels like a *&$^&*( now
that is all

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

gp send an email for sure, I'd lay 2:1 you'll get at least your entry fee back

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

Didn't this happen to ZeeJustin and he sued and got his money back? Is there a chance play2kill can do this too?

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Didn't this happen to ZeeJustin and he sued and got his money back? Is there a chance play2kill can do this too?

[/ QUOTE ]
ZeeJustin sued? In what country's courts?

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Didn't this happen to ZeeJustin and he sued and got his money back? Is there a chance play2kill can do this too?

[/ QUOTE ]
ZeeJustin sued? In what country's courts?

[/ QUOTE ]I don't know any of the details, I just thought I read that somewhere before

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

from what i've heard, ZJ did not get any money back from stars ($3500 was taken or something smallish) but that he did get all his money back from party (150k+)

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
from what i've heard, ZJ did not get any money back from stars ($3500 was taken or something smallish) but that he did get all his money back from party (150k+)

[/ QUOTE ]
The money seized in his account, but not the winnigs from the tournament he got caught multitabling?

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
gp send an email for sure, I'd lay 2:1 you'll get at least your entry fee back

[/ QUOTE ]
what i said was more of a theoretical question type thing, i was actually 50 away from the money i think

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
from what i've heard, ZJ did not get any money back from stars ($3500 was taken or something smallish) but that he did get all his money back from party (150k+)

[/ QUOTE ]
The money seized in his account, but not the winnigs from the tournament he got caught multitabling?

[/ QUOTE ]


I believe with stars they took all of his winnings that he won while playing multiple accounts.

The total was not much.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

If they only catch the winner I'm really gonna feel like this is a failure though. I'm not saying this for Ray's sake either. There had to be multiple people and to not catch more than 1 find a little ridiculous. In there biggest tourney of the year this should have been one of the main focuses.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

More to the point, if the crime committed is multi-accounting, by definition there should be 2 'people' disqualified, no?

OT

ps - yes, I do realize that the 'other' accounts may have finished outside of the money, but I would have figured the email from Stars would have said something along the lines of 'all related accounts'...

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
If they only catch the winner I'm really gonna feel like this is a failure though. I'm not saying this for Ray's sake either. There had to be multiple people and to not catch more than 1 find a little ridiculous. In there biggest tourney of the year this should have been one of the main focuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, they aren't going to go after those people because there aren't large sums of money at stake. The only reason they went after TheV0id is because immediately after winning there were rumors of him being a multi-accounter, and of COURSE Stars looks into the huge wins.

They don't really have any incentive to go after the guys that barely cashed or didn't cash.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

The incentive to show that they're doing their best to keep the field level for "the average poker joe" should be enough. Exposing and banning any and all multi-accounters, winners or not, would be more of a deterrent for all those considering it in the future.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

its certainly a step in the right direction, if multiaccounters cant risk coming first in these tournaments anymore, that takes a lot of the reason to do it in the first place away

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they only catch the winner I'm really gonna feel like this is a failure though. I'm not saying this for Ray's sake either. There had to be multiple people and to not catch more than 1 find a little ridiculous. In there biggest tourney of the year this should have been one of the main focuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, they aren't going to go after those people because there aren't large sums of money at stake. The only reason they went after TheV0id is because immediately after winning there were rumors of him being a multi-accounter, and of COURSE Stars looks into the huge wins.

They don't really have any incentive to go after the guys that barely cashed or didn't cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, this would included somewhere closer to the top 100 in the tournament then and at least the top 45.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the void busted me two spots away from the bubble, but i get nothing ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dear Support,

I had heard the rumors that perhaps The_Void was a 2nd account of someone and blah blah blah. Now I heard that you guys have finished the investigation and determined he broke the rules, and his prize money will be redistributed.

Since I went relatively deep in this tournament, this was kind of good news to me, as I figured maybe I'd make some more money. I then read that everyone is simply moving up a spot on the pay scale.

To me, this does not seem fair.

Now, the person who got 415th place makes $2998.00 more than he had. ka$ino in 2nd place takes home an additional $677,548! However for all of us who cashed in an arbitrary (meaning non payscale bubble) spot, we don't make anything more. How is that fair?

I understand that this is your decision and it's almost certainly final. I know that this e-mail will not make you guys change your decision on how to distribute the $1.378M. I am mostly just curious why you think that is the fairest way to redistribute the money.

Wouldn't it be more fair to say, take the $1,378,330.50 and pretend like that's a whole new prize pool? And then 2nd place (who got 9.35% of the initial prize pool) would get 9.35% of the $1,378,330.50. And so on down the pay line. The problem with this is that you would be left with 18.39% (first place percentage) of the initial first place money. But you could simply do the same thing with that 18.39%. This would probably have to happen about 5 times or something until you are left with an arbitrary amount of money not worth distributing proportionally (say, $1). This way EVERYONE who cashed makes more money, and it's more indicative of their performance and luck from the tournament.

Again, I don't expect you guys to overturn your decision, I just want to know why it's fair that many of us who cashed get NONE of the redistributed $1.3M and others get respectable chunks of it simply for happening to land on a payscale bubble spot when they busted?

Sincerely,

A slightly upset Xaston

[/ QUOTE ]


LOL. It would be a little easier to simply divide each person's winnings by 81.61%! (100% - 18.39%)

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they only catch the winner I'm really gonna feel like this is a failure though. I'm not saying this for Ray's sake either. There had to be multiple people and to not catch more than 1 find a little ridiculous. In there biggest tourney of the year this should have been one of the main focuses.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing is, they aren't going to go after those people because there aren't large sums of money at stake. The only reason they went after TheV0id is because immediately after winning there were rumors of him being a multi-accounter, and of COURSE Stars looks into the huge wins.

They don't really have any incentive to go after the guys that barely cashed or didn't cash.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, this would included somewhere closer to the top 100 in the tournament then and at least the top 45.

[/ QUOTE ]


ye right ...i wonder how many cheaters were in that mtt.
I hope stars see the entire 415 guys ip to see if there is somenone else...and what you say is not fair, only because for you if i kill one person and receive 20k for the job im not punished, but if i kill 10 and receive 200k...i should be investigated...

I dont know how stars is going to solve this, but everyone who played the event, even who didnt cashed must receive $$, only because they were cheated....and i didnt play it.

Another thing...did he had a sister or not? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

How do they determine if you're a multi-accounter? I have a backup plan in case I am deep in a tourney and my internet connection goes out. (I tether my blackberry as a modem and run off of AT&T's wireless network).

My IP address would be completely different than the one I started the tournament with.

Oh wait, for this to be an issue I would need to actually go deep in a major. Nevermind. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
How do they determine if you're a multi-accounter? I have a backup plan in case I am deep in a tourney and my internet connection goes out. (I tether my blackberry as a modem and run off of AT&T's wireless network).

My IP address would be completely different than the one I started the tournament with.

Oh wait, for this to be an issue I would need to actually go deep in a major. Nevermind. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your geographical location would still be the same. Your concern would be them thinking someone else is taking over for you but if you lose connection that's legal anyways.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How do they determine if you're a multi-accounter? I have a backup plan in case I am deep in a tourney and my internet connection goes out. (I tether my blackberry as a modem and run off of AT&T's wireless network).

My IP address would be completely different than the one I started the tournament with.

Oh wait, for this to be an issue I would need to actually go deep in a major. Nevermind. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your geographical location would still be the same. Your concern would be them thinking someone else is taking over for you but if you lose connection that's legal anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

err, I was under the impression that that's no longer legal

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

i just read through stars TOS and i coudlnt find anything about it. I really hope thats not agains tthe rules, cause i'm definitely gonna end up breaking that [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] it happens monthly that i have to call a friend to take over for my shoddy interenet connection/unexpected thing i have to leave for.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How do they determine if you're a multi-accounter? I have a backup plan in case I am deep in a tourney and my internet connection goes out. (I tether my blackberry as a modem and run off of AT&T's wireless network).

My IP address would be completely different than the one I started the tournament with.

Oh wait, for this to be an issue I would need to actually go deep in a major. Nevermind. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Your geographical location would still be the same. Your concern would be them thinking someone else is taking over for you but if you lose connection that's legal anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

err, I was under the impression that that's no longer legal

[/ QUOTE ]

Raymer did it in the WCOOP event he won. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
i just read through stars TOS and i coudlnt find anything about it. I really hope thats not agains tthe rules, cause i'm definitely gonna end up breaking that [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] it happens monthly that i have to call a friend to take over for my shoddy interenet connection/unexpected thing i have to leave for.

[/ QUOTE ]

Number 21 from the rules: http://www.pokerstars.com/poker/tournaments/rules/

With trivial exceptions, a player may play on only one account during a tournament and may not "hand off" his seat in mid-event to a different player. Violation of this rule may result in penalties ranging from a warning, to disqualification from the tournament (with partial or full forfeiture of winnings), to barring from PokerStars.

Examples:
- You get a phone call during a PokerStars tournament. You ask your husband, who has already busted out of that tournament, to play your hands for you. You are on the phone for ten minutes and then resume play. This is permitted.
- You and a friend are playing in the same tournament. You agree that if he busts out before you do, he will take over playing your account. This is prohibited.
- You are playing in a tournament and lose power in your home due to a failure of your power station. You call a friend and he takes over until your power is returned. This is permitted.
- Your husband is out of town for the weekend, but gives you his password. You log into both his account and yours and play both accounts in the same tournament. This is prohibited.
- You have progressed to the final few tables of a tournament and somebody offers you cash equity for your seat. You allow the other player to sign into your account, or you continue to finish the tournament following the explicit instructions given by him. This is prohibited.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

I see... how ridiculously unclear of them. What if I get a phone call and decide I'd rather leave than finish the tournament. Can my husband play longer than 10 minutes?

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I see... how ridiculously unclear of them. What if I get a phone call and decide I'd rather leave than finish the tournament. Can my husband play longer than 10 minutes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Funkii we like to have a don't ask don't tell policy here at 2+2. In the future please say "my significant other'. Thanks.

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see... how ridiculously unclear of them. What if I get a phone call and decide I'd rather leave than finish the tournament. Can my husband play longer than 10 minutes?

[/ QUOTE ]

Funkii we like to have a don't ask don't tell policy here at 2+2. In the future please say "my significant other'. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]
HAHA. Badger 1, Funkii 0

Re: TheVOid DQ\'ed? (Xpost)
 

oh come on, I made the joke myself, how does he get the point?