Re: dear lebron james,
 

Front runners, band wagoners and anyone else who constantly changes their "favorite" teams don't really bother me that much. They are only robbing themselves of the greater emotional payoff of sticking with a team for the long haul.

I understand Kyelbs point about not wanting to put up with bad management, but I view it more like a family member who is a [censored] up. You don't give up on them and hopefully they'll turn it around.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

i could never root for anyone other than cleveland, dunno how people just pick random teams, seems weird to me i dunno, maybe im just lucky that i have 3 pro teams in my home town

Re: dear lebron james,
 

People who like the Yankees who aren't physically located in NY are evil incarnate.

Lebron's frontrunning sickens and disgusts me. I can see taking a pass on the Browns, the Modell thing happened in his formative years.

I also have a ton of teams I like/hate, and my reason for liking/disliking a given team can be incredibly superficial. I don't even know why I like the Padres, but they are my adopted NL team. I have like 4 or 5 teams per sport(except for college football, where I have a complicated conference-based rooting interest system).

But there, above all, I root for the teams closest to where I was born. Cavs, Browns, Tribe. The end. I [censored] hate the Browns, but come Sunday I root for them to win.

You can't be born in the Gaza Strip and decide that you'd rather root for the IDF. <- racism ban?

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
I understand Kyelbs point about not wanting to put up with bad management, but I view it more like a family member who is a [censored] up. You don't give up on them and hopefully they'll turn it around.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh. With free agency, it's much easier to be (or not be) fans of individual players, GMs, etc. For instance, the White Sox brought in Darin Erstad this year. I will not cheer for Darin Erstad simply because he wears a White Sox jersey. In fact, I boo'd his ass from day one and will continue to do so until the Sox get their head out of their ass and release him. Non-FA eligible players get a free pass because unless they are just horrendously bad, there's always some value in having guys making near the league minimum on the roster.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
You can't be born in the Gaza Strip and decide that you'd rather root for the IDF. <- racism ban?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, this is pretty relevant to choosing which sports teams you root for.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't really understand going into a season rooting for a team because you like how the GM drafts or because the new OC brought in the run-n-shoot.

I'm sure on the surface it's great because "your team" is winning the championship every 3 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't understand rooting for a team because they wear blue and red.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't really understand going into a season rooting for a team because you like how the GM drafts or because the new OC brought in the run-n-shoot.

I'm sure on the surface it's great because "your team" is winning the championship every 3 years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I don't understand rooting for a team because they wear blue and red.

[/ QUOTE ]

Communist

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
Front runners, band wagoners and anyone else who constantly changes their "favorite" teams don't really bother me that much. They are only robbing themselves of the greater emotional payoff of sticking with a team for the long haul.

I understand Kyelbs point about not wanting to put up with bad management, but I view it more like a family member who is a [censored] up. You don't give up on them and hopefully they'll turn it around.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have huge emotionalEV swings, both positive and negative. I have smaller ones, probably (although I don't know if thats necessarily true) but I rarely have any negative ones. I'm not sure why yours is the better strategy.

And really, its a bold assertion to even claim your huge emotional payoff is anything greater than what mine is. People are only capable of certain amounts of joy, and it doesn't really take that much to max out on it. So I'm absolutely thrilled when a team I like wins something. Same as you are. I have no idea why you think your enjoyment is so much greater.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
i could never root for anyone other than cleveland, dunno how people just pick random teams, seems weird to me i dunno, maybe im just lucky that i have 3 pro teams in my home town

[/ QUOTE ]

Its just different strokes. I could never root for a team that constantly made mistakes and showed absolutely no respect for their fans. MANY franchises do exactly this. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I continued to line their pockets. You can. No big deal. I don't think you are any less of a fan because of this, I don't think you enjoy sports any less than I do. You might, who knows, but you probably enjoy it just about as much as I do.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

I think those of you who are calling the non-New York-based Yankee lovers evil incarnate are being a little short-sighted.

My dad was born and raised in Toronto and spent his whole life here, but was a Yankee fan until the day he died. Anyone who grew up with baseball in the fifties had ties to either the Yanks, Dodgers or Giants, because expansion had kept the game de-regionalized and the New York teams were at the top of any baseball news reporting source. New York was the center of the world.

It's entirely plausible that Lebron has a family member who taught him to be a yankees fan, or he just attached himself to their winning mystique in the mid-to-late nineties, when they just played the game better and more appropriately than anyone else (qualitied leBron could relate to). Hell, I'm a jays fan and have to face the sons of bitches too many times a year and look at them hovering over us in the standings, but despite that I respect the hell out of those nineties championship clubs.

Take it easy on the guy. He's a fantastic athelete, but he's still a human being with the biases that come with it.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i could never root for anyone other than cleveland, dunno how people just pick random teams, seems weird to me i dunno, maybe im just lucky that i have 3 pro teams in my home town

[/ QUOTE ]

Its just different strokes. I could never root for a team that constantly made mistakes and showed absolutely no respect for their fans. MANY franchises do exactly this. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I continued to line their pockets. You can. No big deal. I don't think you are any less of a fan because of this, I don't think you enjoy sports any less than I do. You might, who knows, but you probably enjoy it just about as much as I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not the fact that you hop from team to team, it's that you use bs justifications like this. Admit you're a bandwagon fan who is only interested in a winner, and hey, that's fine. But to ascribe some higher moral value of not supporting a team, how you couldn't look at yourself in the mirror if you supported a poorly run team, please, you just want to enjoy winning and not have to deal with losing.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

I like following the A's. They aren't winning. I still enjoy following them. I like the Devil Rays. They put up a great record this year NOT

You are grossly twisting the facts. I am not supporting the Cubs or any other team that is run like [censored]. They don't deserve my money and/or attention.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Front runners, band wagoners and anyone else who constantly changes their "favorite" teams don't really bother me that much. They are only robbing themselves of the greater emotional payoff of sticking with a team for the long haul.

I understand Kyelbs point about not wanting to put up with bad management, but I view it more like a family member who is a [censored] up. You don't give up on them and hopefully they'll turn it around.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have huge emotionalEV swings, both positive and negative. I have smaller ones, probably (although I don't know if thats necessarily true) but I rarely have any negative ones. I'm not sure why yours is the better strategy.

And really, its a bold assertion to even claim your huge emotional payoff is anything greater than what mine is. People are only capable of certain amounts of joy, and it doesn't really take that much to max out on it. So I'm absolutely thrilled when a team I like wins something. Same as you are. I have no idea why you think your enjoyment is so much greater.

[/ QUOTE ]


oh my God Hawk, did you just put emotional swings in terms of EV when talking about why people like baseball teams?!? See, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about at Rocket Bar when I mentioned poker players as baseball fans! hahahah just kidding, sorta

But honestly, I love the Red Sox because I grew up around them, and I loved their players from a young age. I pledged my allegiance, so to speak, so while I may enjoy watching other teams and players, it's certainly not because I admire the front-office. To each his own. But let me tell you one thing, I'll take a ton of negative emotional swings just to experience the joy I felt in 2004 when Renteria grounded right back to Foulke, and that ain't no [censored] neither.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i could never root for anyone other than cleveland, dunno how people just pick random teams, seems weird to me i dunno, maybe im just lucky that i have 3 pro teams in my home town

[/ QUOTE ]

Its just different strokes. I could never root for a team that constantly made mistakes and showed absolutely no respect for their fans. MANY franchises do exactly this. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I continued to line their pockets. You can. No big deal. I don't think you are any less of a fan because of this, I don't think you enjoy sports any less than I do. You might, who knows, but you probably enjoy it just about as much as I do.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not the fact that you hop from team to team, it's that you use bs justifications like this. Admit you're a bandwagon fan who is only interested in a winner, and hey, that's fine. But to ascribe some higher moral value of not supporting a team, how you couldn't look at yourself in the mirror if you supported a poorly run team, please, you just want to enjoy winning and not have to deal with losing.

[/ QUOTE ]


Nah, Vhawk is a great baseball fan, he just looks at things differently. I really disagree with you here.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like following the A's. They aren't winning. I still enjoy following them. I like the Devil Rays. They put up a great record this year NOT

You are grossly twisting the facts. I am not supporting the Cubs or any other team that is run like [censored]. They don't deserve my money and/or attention.

[/ QUOTE ]


I enjoy the A's too, they would give the Red Sox some great series in the playoffs. Agree re: the D-Rays, their young talent is a ton of fun to watch (Evan Longoria gon' be a beast), and when they start getting some arms from their farm system to back up Kazmir they're gonna be pretty solid. It's a shame they're in the AL East

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Rays in 2009!

Lineup:

Crawford
Longoria
Brignac
Pena
Iwamura
Upton
Young
Gomes
Navarro

Rotation:

Kazmir
Shields
McGee
Niemann
Sonnanstine / Howell

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Look, I enjoyed reading moneyball, but I'm not going to run out and buy an A's cap because I love Billy Beane so much. If your definition of following is the same as, say, following a company that is putting out an interesting product, that's fine and I understand that. But if you switch what baseball hat you wear out depending on which of your 4 teams is still in the playoffs, that's a bandwagon fan, imo.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
Look, I enjoyed reading moneyball, but I'm not going to run out and buy an A's cap because I love Billy Beane so much. If your definition of following is the same as, say, following a company that is putting out an interesting product, that's fine and I understand that. But if you switch what baseball hat you wear out depending on which of your 4 teams is still in the playoffs, that's a bandwagon fan, imo.

[/ QUOTE ]


Very well. Kyleb and Vhawk- which baseball caps will you be wearing for the remainder of the playoffs?

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Baseball caps I own:

-Seattle Mariners (for my baseball team)
-New York Yankees (obviously not wearing this one)
-Chiba Lotte Marines

So, I guess my Mariners cap and Sizemore jersey.

I will root for the Indians/Diamondbacks throughout the playoffs. I will also root for the Red Sox to tank.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

It's difficult for me to weigh in here seeing as the 4 teams I like have been pretty good over the course of my sports fandom, but Lebron isn't exactly a front-runner. He just picked the teams that were good when he was young. And why not? If Lebron wanted to watch true greatness, Cleveland sports hasn't always the place to find it.

I won't understand changing allegiances completely but I can support having other teams to like once yours drops out.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

thing is lbj insulted his own fan base by wearing the hat to the game.

apparently he took it off at some point in the game bc the taunting was so bad.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who grew up with baseball in the fifties had ties to either the Yanks, Dodgers or Giants, because expansion had kept the game de-regionalized and the New York teams were at the top of any baseball news reporting source. New York was the center of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cleveland has had a baseball team for a long time. There is no way the NY teams were bigger in Cleveland than the Indians were.

anyways, I'm not sure how this relates to Lebron. he grew up just outside Cleveland, mostly to a single mom who I doubt was a big Yankee fan.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
but Lebron isn't exactly a front-runner. He just picked the teams that were good when he was young.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: dear lebron james,
 

KBZ - lolol

All - I have had Clippers season tickets for years now. I hate front-runners and bandwagoners you all make me sick.

-Al

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
but Lebron isn't exactly a front-runner. He just picked the teams that were good when he was young.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Have the Cowboys been that great lately? I mean, they're great this year, but before this year? Shouldn't he be a Patriots fan by now?

A true front-runner switches when he sees the ship sinking.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

I can understand someone having a few "favorite teams" in each sport. Some people don't develop regional favorites in their youth, or they may have had relatives who were fans of multiple teams (I have Bears, Browns, and Steelers fans scattered throughout my family). Whatever. There's a difference between kyleb and vhawk having a few different favorites vs. the guy I work with. In the last few years, this guy has been a "fan" of the following teams:

Eagles
Falcons
Bears

Dodgers
Tigers
Yankees

Lakers
Kings
Heat

Pretty sure I missed some, but you get the idea. This guy waits until the midpoint of a season, and suddenly becomes a "fan" of whoever is in 1st place. He couldn't name more than two players on the roster, but he's a fan. That's the true definition of a band wagoner.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

yeah, Lebron has suffered through some really lean Yankee years

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
thing is lbj insulted his own fan base by wearing the hat to the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

The guy didn't turn his back when the National Anthem played. He wore a cap of the team he roots for to a baseball game. If his fan base is going to be fickle and demand the guy fall in line for Cleveland sports, [censored] 'em.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, Lebron has suffered through some really lean Yankee years

[/ QUOTE ]

so? my point is he's suffered through lean cowboy years. and if he stayed a bulls fan, he suffered through [censored] lean bulls years as well.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who grew up with baseball in the fifties had ties to either the Yanks, Dodgers or Giants, because expansion had kept the game de-regionalized and the New York teams were at the top of any baseball news reporting source. New York was the center of the world.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cleveland has had a baseball team for a long time. There is no way the NY teams were bigger in Cleveland than the Indians were.

anyways, I'm not sure how this relates to Lebron. he grew up just outside Cleveland, mostly to a single mom who I doubt was a big Yankee fan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I can't say I agree with the notion that everyone had ties to the NY teams back then. My dad grew up in Milwaukee and was a Milwaukee Braves fan through and through. His allegiance died when they moved (don't know if it was because he felt betrayed or because it was too much effort to follow them in Atlanta). My household is die-hard Brewers, Packers, and Bucks (I guess Bucks - we're not that huge on the NBA) fans.

I root for the teams from my city/state because I grew up with them. From as early an age as I can remember, I watched the teams play and became attached to them. It's sort of like how you become attached to your parents from birth, even though you don't really know anything about the world (well, it's like that, except for all the hormones and genetics). The players on the teams were my sports idols.

I'm not sure why some don't understand why people root for their home town teams. It's completely natural.

Interestingly, my mom grew up in Chicago and was a White Sox and Bears fan. Over time, she lost her allegiance to the Chicago teams and has become a full-fledged Brewers and Packers fan. Assimilation, I guess.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

To all,

The Jacksonville Jaguars are begging for everyone to jump on their bandwagon right now. We don't care if you have never heard of them or have no idea where Jacksonville is, we are desperately in need of fans. Screw this whole bandwagon thing and please keep the team in Jacksonville.

Thanks,
A scared Jags fan

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah, Lebron has suffered through some really lean Yankee years

[/ QUOTE ]

so? my point is he's suffered through lean cowboy years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dallas Cowboys results since Lebron was 6 years old

1991 11 5 0 2nd NFC East
1992 13 3 0 1st NFC East
1993 12 4 0 1st NFC East
1994 12 4 0 1st NFC East
1995 12 4 0 1st NFC East
1996 10 6 0 1st NFC East
1997 6 10 0 4th NFC East
1998 10 6 0 1st NFC East
1999 8 8 0 2nd NFC East
2000 5 11 0 4th NFC East
2001 5 11 0 5th NFC East
2002 5 11 0 4th NFC East
2003 10 6 0 2nd NFC East
2004 6 10 0 3rd NFC East
2005 9 7 0 3rd NFC East
2006 9 7 0 2nd NFC East
*2007 4 0 0

there is exactly 1 3 year stretch in there that the Cowboys were bad. I suppose he could have jumped ship between 2000 and 2002, but he was probably too busy being on the cover of SI and driving Hummers and stuff like that

[ QUOTE ]
and if he stayed a bulls fan, he suffered through [censored] lean bulls years as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

my guess is that he's not really a Bulls fan anymore

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Yeah, it's a little bogus to be a hardcore fan of a team with no real connection to the team especially when you have a local team to pick from, like James and the Indians. Really looks bad when it looks like bandwagoning.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]

Meh. With free agency, it's much easier to be (or not be) fans of individual players, GMs, etc. For instance, the White Sox brought in Darin Erstad this year. I will not cheer for Darin Erstad simply because he wears a White Sox jersey. In fact, I boo'd his ass from day one and will continue to do so until the Sox get their head out of their ass and release him. Non-FA eligible players get a free pass because unless they are just horrendously bad, there's always some value in having guys making near the league minimum on the roster.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it easy to be fans of individual players as well. Particularly when they are part of the 'identity' of the team your a fan of and then sign with another team later on. It would be hard for me to root against Pedro or Manny (if anything I would want them to have some kick ass seasons, (not going to happen) just to guarantee I get to hear their acceptance speeches).

I don't understand how you don't cheer for Erstad though. I am pretty sure the guy played hockey and football. I think I heard that once. He is a pretty tough cat. Aren't the White Sox going to need a SS? Maybe long lost teammates could be reunited [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] .

craig

Re: dear lebron james,
 

[ QUOTE ]
I will root for the Indians/Diamondbacks throughout the playoffs. I will also root for the Red Sox to tank.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will of course be rooting for the Red Sox, but if BOS gets knocked out then I definitely would want Cleveland (if they are still in) or Arizona to win. I told my wife, and this isn't hyperbole, that if 'someone's team' gets knocked out/not in playoffs and they root for anyone other than Cleveland or Arizona, they have no soul.

craig

Re: dear lebron james,
 

I'm a White Sox homer. In the playoffs, the order of my fandom is Cleveland, Anaheim, NYY, Boston in the AL and Rockies/Phillies/D'backs > Cubs in the AL. I'll be rooting for the NL in the World Series regardless of which two teams make it.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Braves, Saints, and Mavs fan. A couple years ago I told myself I wasn't watching the Saints until they got their [censored] together. They cleaned house and showed they were at least trying to win and that was enough for me.

Edit: Since I'm from Louisiana I had to chose a baseball and basketball team. That they're both close is a coincidence. My grandfather was a fan of the Braves thanks to TBS. Mavs mostly because they were really fun to watch with Nash and Dirk.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

This just makes me doubt his ability to improve his jumpshot more.

Re: dear lebron james,
 

Going back to my dad, when it came time for me to pick a football team, I was careful to note he was a major Broncos fan.

Go Raiders.:)

Re: dear lebron james,
 

So I live in Eastern/Central New Jersey, am I a horrible sports fan because I root heavily for the Yankees? Thats retarded. I can understand ripping people who live in Cleveland for rooting for the Yankees, but areas like Conn. and NJ should be included in the "its alright to root for NY teams" camps without calling them bandwagoners.