Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how CF misled him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Jerry was told wrong numbers for who gets what from where. I personally think CF had no business being there unless JY invited him, which he may have, but he could have just told him the whole truth, thats all Im saying.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good. Dealers who think they should be wealthy are idiots. Try going to college and getting a real job. You shouldnt be making $50/hour dealing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not many people make 50 bucks an hr period...alot of people THINK they do but considering the corporate culture is now 24-7 and 55 hour work weeks are the norm ofr white collar slave types....combines with an expanding h1b program....

A good dealer deserves to be well paid...wealthy..no...but well compensated.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I dont get it

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Zero is the correct number. Ferguson and other big pros were criticized by some idiot at my 1/2 NL cash game table in Seneca Niagara for leaving only a collective $5 in tips during a cash game on some cruise boat that the idiot worked on or with. The idiot was in THEIR cash game and criticized them for not tipping much, and they asked him to leave the game.

The idiot came off as an 'arrogant know-it-all American' (and that's an insult to all you fine Americans, but I'm trying to paint a picture here). The goof continued to lecture us at the 1/2 NL table by lecturing, "if you don't tip, you can't afford to play at this table". Meanwhile, the poor beginner to my right is recently occupationally disabled and asking for advice as to how to make a living at this game from us.

Lastly, if any tipping is going on, give it to the other players who played, lol, us players have to stick together... ha ha ha... (unless service is extraordinary, and tips unpooled).

The best idea ever never gets any traction: tell all dealers that you are donating to a fund to annually award the best dealer in North America $100M for being the most proficient and effective... then set up an organization that does this. Sell buttons, organize judges, audits, etc. convince a rakefree poker site to protect and collect the money, all voluntary. Why? So the players and the dealers win. The casinos would have to cough up more money to keep them there and we'll have hedge fund managers vying for that cool $100M. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Good. Dealers who think they should be wealthy are idiots. Try going to college and getting a real job. You shouldnt be making $50/hour dealing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why shouldn't I? I may not be the best dealer out there but I have a kick ass job that i love and why shouldn't i get paid well for a job that takes alot of skill and knowledge to be done right? Hell just having to put up with players with piss poor attitudes that blame their crappy play or poor luck on me and the cards i deal .....i should make alot more

[/ QUOTE ]


Agree 100%. amazing how people forget or dont even know the BS dealers have to go through

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Good. Dealers who think they should be wealthy are idiots. Try going to college and getting a real job. You shouldnt be making $50/hour dealing poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

That's how I tip. I treat dealers with great respect and I protect them from abuse from other players the best I can.

I've often wondered if dealers could choose, which would it be, respect with a decent wage paid by the casino, or abuse with lower pay, dependent on tips (from people you often despise)?

Denmark, Australia, New Zealand and China have had traditions where tipping was considered a bit of an insult, moreover it servers to distort the dealers' ability or propensity to treat the players impartially.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I think Dealers should get tipped well by the players, especially the players who play often and consider themselves pro's or parttime pro's. The dealers rely on tips for most of their income, if we the players tip less, we will see the competency level of most dealers lower because dealing would become a less desirable profession. And you will not make the casinos pay the dealers more, In the casino's view, a poker room filled with slot machines instead of poker tables would be more of a profit to them as there are less employees to worry about. So let's tip the dealers who perform well.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I knew Yang kept talking about Jesus, but I did not think he meant that Jesus.

I don't think it is Ferguson's place to speak up and cost the dealers money. I wonder what the usual tradition at Binion's was all those years??? The dealers did not like Becky and she was accused of taking from them, but I do not recall the details.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Now I am not good at math without chips and cards infront of me but everything that goes into the toke pool must be shared between all dealers for that 11 days and going by CF's number that he stated in the payout room to Jerry means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me.


[/ QUOTE ]

Nice post. You discount the fact the $214 for 11 days work is only from the First Prize of $8.5 million. There is more then $50 million where 1.8% was taken out to tip the dealers.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

What??? You made 50$ an hour and find reason to complain????

Wow, I have a university degree and a good job and I do not make 50$ an hour for a job that is a lot harder and requires more knowledge than a poker dealer.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I, as a witness in the payout office, can confirm the story dealer Laurie (a.k.a. "pkrporcupine") posted.

I, having been hired as Jerry's agent for the WSOP Main Event on Monday afternoon, was the one who authorized Chris Ferguson to be present in the payout office on Wednesday morning.

Chris was acting in good faith as a former world champion who wanted to look after a fellow world champion. He was NOT acting as a representative for FullTiltPoker.net.

Oliver Tse
Oliver Tse Management Group
otmgmt@otmgmt.com

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Crossed out text on articles is just lazy and bad, why do people do it

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Chris was acting in good faith as a former world champion who wanted to look after a fellow world champion. He was NOT acting as a representative for FullTiltPoker.net.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh man good thing you pointed this out! *rolls eyes*

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Crossed out text on articles is just lazy and bad, why do people do it

[/ QUOTE ]

to show what has been edited since the original post.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I don't begrudge anyone a living, but this is laughable

[ QUOTE ]
We depend on the WSOP to make up for the rest of the year to keep us all fed till January. This 45 days of hard work is atleast 2/3 of most of our incomes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, too bad most of us have to work hard ... um about 2/3 of the year to make 2/3 of our yearly income. How about another career path or a supplemental job. What make's you so special?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hello all. Im stopping by here first to clear a few things up then i will be posting on pokerati. I am the dealer that put out the last hand. I was in the payout room with Jerry as a representative for the dealers. I do not know if chris was invited or not but that is beside the point. First I want to say that Jerry is a wonderfull, big hearted man that played a great tourney for somebody that has only been playing for 2 years. HE DID NOT STIFF US! He was misled and didnt know any better. A stiff is someone who knows all the facts and refuses to toke and wont even say thank you. Next, we do not get paid by the hour this year, we get paid by downs (each table we deal), we do get an hourly $6.41 from harrahs. As for the main this year, 1.8% was withheld for the staff, which i might add is the smallest we have been given in years. It is split 30% to the Floor staff and its supposed to be 70% for the dealers but i have heard that a chunk of that is going to the chip runners and cashiers....dont quote me on that cuz i dont know for a fact. Now We started the main this year with over 700 dealers and that was too many in my opinion because they were getting very little downs per day and having forced days off. We are NOT garunteed $25 a down, Dan misunderstood me when I was explaining to him what we have been averageing this year. Now I am not good at math without chips and cards infront of me but everything that goes into the toke pool must be shared between all dealers for that 11 days and going by CF's number that he stated in the payout room to Jerry means that we should only recieve $214 for 11 days of work? Hmmm that doesnt sound to good to me.
As for what happened last night, Jerry trusted CF to give him very sound advice because he has never won anything like this before. The issue I have is when the payout clerk asked Jerry if he would like to leave anything ADDITIONAL (yes that is how it was stated) for the dealers, Jerry looked to chris and asked What he should do. CF Told him that the dealers already get 2%, he was then corrected by someone in the room with us that its 1.8%, so CF goes on to say that "It works out to be around 170K that you have already tipped them so no, I would not leave anything more." It Was very wrong of CF to state it in that manner because he was flat out misleading. I stood there smiling, waited for Jerry to finish signing his paperwork then hugged and congratulated him once more, very sincerly. Of course i was pissed, not that Jerry declined to tip but that CF was giving him great advice on everything else but was completely wrong when it came to the dealers. I couldn't say anything because that would be considered soliciting. I just wish that he would have been properly informed and if then he declined, I am perfectly fine with that. Yes we make good money for what we do and unfortunately there are some greedy ones in the bunch. Alot of you out there calling me greedy need to understand that because i choose to work the circuit for harrahs and travel with them, I have to pay all my own expenses, my own health care and we only work about 2 weeks every month. We depend on the WSOP to make up for the rest of the year to keep us all fed till January. This 45 days of hard work is atleast 2/3 of most of our incomes. Now I believe that harrahs with the huge vig every event should be the ones responsible for giving us a bigger chunk and I think that tipping is a very personal thing that should be left to every individual to decide on and not bitter players who wish to bash us "greedy sons of...". I for one dont expect anything that i have not earned but I always appreciate a thank you for a job well done and that doesnt have to be in the form of cash and last night it was in the form of a huge hug. I love my job even with the ups and downs and honestly, This years WSOP was a great time for me. So hopefully this rambling clears up a few things and starts alot more discussions on how things can be done even better next year for all involved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying you received a total of $214 for 11 days of work? If not, please post how many hours you worked during the WSOP and how much you made. Without specific numbers, I don't see anyone's mentality on tipping changing.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see how CF misled him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, I don't see wtf is going on. How exactly did jesus mislead him?

He said that 1.8% was already taken out, which is true. Are you guys daft?

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Yet again we are not recieving 1.8%, over 700 dealers are sharing 65% of that 1.8%(I have been told now that the chip runners are getting 5% of our share) And atleast i can admit im no good with numbers :O)

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

it's going to be the same thing as every year before and probably every year after this

dealers complain they're under paid, but won't tell how much they're making

argument goes nowhere

i cashed in one event for about 58k

they asked if i wanted to tip, i said how much of the prize pool is going to the dealers for this event

sorry we can't tell you that

so i didn't end up tipping

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I, as a witness in the payout office, can confirm the story dealer Laurie (a.k.a. "pkrporcupine") posted.

I, having been hired as Jerry's agent for the WSOP Main Event on Monday afternoon, was the one who authorized Chris Ferguson to be present in the payout office on Wednesday morning.

Chris was acting in good faith as a former world champion who wanted to look after a fellow world champion. He was NOT acting as a representative for FullTiltPoker.net.

Oliver Tse
Oliver Tse Management Group
otmgmt@otmgmt.com



[/ QUOTE ]

I can't believe nobody has realized the importance of this post to both this thread, and to Pacific Rim poker as a whole.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Never did i complain about what i make, if you had paid attention you will notice that i said i love my job and dont care if Jerry tipped. He said thank you and is very sincere and a good man, not an ass like some players. I never said i was special and i never said i made $50 an hour, i usually average that before taxes sometimes more. I earn what i do because i am good at what i do just like those of you in a regular white collar job getting paid what you are worth and are valued for what you add to your job.
And thanks for the info Oliver, now atleast we know how he got in there. And CF did give great advice to JY about how to handle the taxes, how to have the casino pay him etc.
Im not sure if its even worth mentioning in here but I think it would be a great idea and step in the right direction to have a dealer on the players advisory board to be able to set up a fair way to pay the staff so everyone bennifits

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

$60,000,000 * 1.8% * 65% = $702,000

$702,000 / 700 dealers = $1,003 per dealer

Days of work:
Days most dealers needed: 7 (1a,1b,1c,1d,2a,2b,3)
Days only a fraction of the dealers are needed: (4,5,6,FT)


It seems most dealers should be getting about $1,000 for 7 days of work.

What I don't understand is why there are 700 dealers. Even on the busiest day there were only about 200 tables. Even with many extra dealers around to provide generous breaks for those working I can't see why there would be 700 dealers needed.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
dealers complain they're under paid, but won't tell how much they're making

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly. stop complaining if you aren't willing to be upfront about how much you make. obviously dealers complain because they want the tipping culture to change/improve, yet how can they create change without showing that they are being paid unfairly.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Sounds like 1k each plus wages. How many of you only had to work 4/5 of those days? Between 100 (a few of you) and 200 (most of you) a day tippage doesn't sound too shabby to me.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

I understand you are getting 65% of the 1.8% of the TOTAL prizepool. CF calculated what the winner paid in tips only for what he won and took home. So he only has already paid $170,000 or so. The rest of the field who cashed each have also paid an addition 1.8% of there winnings to the toal tips.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Never did i complain about what i make, if you had paid attention you will notice that i said i love my job and dont care if Jerry tipped. He said thank you and is very sincere and a good man, not an ass like some players. I never said i was special and i never said i made $50 an hour, i usually average that before taxes sometimes more. I earn what i do because i am good at what i do just like those of you in a regular white collar job getting paid what you are worth and are valued for what you add to your job.
And thanks for the info Oliver, now atleast we know how he got in there. And CF did give great advice to JY about how to handle the taxes, how to have the casino pay him etc.
Im not sure if its even worth mentioning in here but I think it would be a great idea and step in the right direction to have a dealer on the players advisory board to be able to set up a fair way to pay the staff so everyone bennifits

[/ QUOTE ]

If you usually make 50 dollars per hour before taxes you should never be complaining. This is a job a computer does even better than you do, yet you get paid to do it on a regular basis.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Why would you ever tip the dealer pool rather than just tip the dealers that you played with (That deserved it even)

That is like me walking around the Bellagio floor tipping mixed game dealers while I am at a NL table after I win a monster pot.

BTW: Oliver every post you make makes me laugh, poker is no longer fun for everyone, in fact, this just got seriousssss.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you ever tip the dealer pool rather than just tip the dealers that you played with (That deserved it even)



[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe because if you tip an individual tournament dealer or floor, he is required to turn it into the pool? And if he "forgets", he can lose more than your tip.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I never said i was special and i never said i made $50 an hour, i usually average that before taxes sometimes more.

[/ QUOTE ]

No wonder they try to keep this a secret. There's no way there would be so much constant pressure to tip all the time if everyone knew this.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

A WSOP dealer told me this year she was being paid $3.20 per hour by Harrah's and relied on tips for the rest. No way it should be legal to underpay qualified workers that grossly! Criticizing players for not taking responsibility and making up for Harrah's repugnant salary policies is plainly mis-leading.

When we buy in to tournaments the organizers take a large fee out of - not the prize pool - but each players buy-in. Relying on lucky individuals to make up for Harrah's disgusting under-payment of their labor is simply wrong. Every dollar giving in tip additional to what's already deducted from the buy-in is just adding to Harrah's profit, and in effect taking the money out of the poker economy.

The strongest way we tournament players can support the underpaid dealers is to refuse to tip anything in addition to what's beeing withheld.

That way Harrah's (and other tournament organizers) will be forced to pay dealers decent wages, if they want to be able to offer tournaments at all!

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never did i complain about what i make, if you had paid attention you will notice that i said i love my job and dont care if Jerry tipped. He said thank you and is very sincere and a good man, not an ass like some players. I never said i was special and i never said i made $50 an hour, i usually average that before taxes sometimes more. I earn what i do because i am good at what i do just like those of you in a regular white collar job getting paid what you are worth and are valued for what you add to your job.
And thanks for the info Oliver, now atleast we know how he got in there. And CF did give great advice to JY about how to handle the taxes, how to have the casino pay him etc.
Im not sure if its even worth mentioning in here but I think it would be a great idea and step in the right direction to have a dealer on the players advisory board to be able to set up a fair way to pay the staff so everyone bennifits

[/ QUOTE ]

If you usually make 50 dollars per hour before taxes you should never be complaining. This is a job a computer does even better than you do, yet you get paid to do it on a regular basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouch.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A WSOP dealer told me this year she was being paid $3.20 per hour by Harrah's and relied on tips for the rest. No way it should be legal to underpay qualified workers that grossly! Criticizing players for not taking responsibility and making up for Harrah's repugnant salary policies is plainly mis-leading.

When we buy in to tournaments the organizers take a large fee out of - not the prize pool - but each players buy-in. Relying on lucky individuals to make up for Harrah's disgusting under-payment of their labor is simply wrong. Every dollar giving in tip additional to what's already deducted from the buy-in is just adding to Harrah's profit, and in effect taking the money out of the poker economy.

The strongest way we tournament players can support the underpaid dealers is to refuse to tip anything in addition to what's beeing withheld.

That way Harrah's (and other tournament organizers) will be forced to pay dealers decent wages, if they want to be able to offer tournaments at all!

[/ QUOTE ]

Dealers are lying to players about how much they make an hour too? I thought they were making $6.41 not half that or $3.20.

If dealer lied to me about how much they made to get more tips I would definatly not give any extra.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dealers complain they're under paid, but won't tell how much they're making

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly. stop complaining if you aren't willing to be upfront about how much you make. obviously dealers complain because they want the tipping culture to change/improve, yet how can they create change without showing that they are being paid unfairly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I NEVER COMPLAINED ABOUT MY PAY OR SAID THAT I WAS BEING PAID UNFAIRLY
OMG do you even understand the english language???
I am highly unimpressed with the lack of intelligence found in this forum. I really hope that Harrahs and the PAB will bring on a rep for the dealers so this can be better for the players and staff next year

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Does the tip appear on the W-2 form? Or does the player need
to claim the tip on the schedule A? If the tip isn't shown
on the W-2, I wouldn't tip either.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Why does it matter how much they get paid (whether they are overpaid or underpaid)? Do you ask a hairdresser or waiter what their wage is before you leave a tip?

Also for their suffering and charity work, I nominate the WSOP dealers for the Arthur Ashe Humanitarian ESPY award.

How much they make is Harrah's issue. If you feel like the dealers did a good job, give them money if you want. This whole tipping thing has gotten out of control in America (it shouldn't be standard to tip anyone, it should be a personal decision).

If $50/hour is the going rate for dealers so be it, market forces will set what the “fair rate”. I don’t know what it is, but it works it’s way out.

From what I see, the dealers do a great job at the WSOP.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

[ QUOTE ]
A WSOP dealer told me this year she was being paid $3.20 per hour by Harrah's and relied on tips for the rest. No way it should be legal to underpay qualified workers that grossly! Criticizing players for not taking responsibility and making up for Harrah's repugnant salary policies is plainly mis-leading.

When we buy in to tournaments the organizers take a large fee out of - not the prize pool - but each players buy-in. Relying on lucky individuals to make up for Harrah's disgusting under-payment of their labor is simply wrong. Every dollar giving in tip additional to what's already deducted from the buy-in is just adding to Harrah's profit, and in effect taking the money out of the poker economy.

The strongest way we tournament players can support the underpaid dealers is to refuse to tip anything in addition to what's beeing withheld.

That way Harrah's (and other tournament organizers) will be forced to pay dealers decent wages, if they want to be able to offer tournaments at all!

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY my point. The players pay enough in fee's and like I said originally, it should be Harrahs responsibility to give the staff and dealers a bigger chunk of the vig. I dont think it would harm them one bit to give up an additional 1.2% to make it a total of 3% withheld for the staff then do the 70/30 split. Any problems with that?
And, a computer can take over almost anyones job, but I have a much better personality and I look alot better in a low cut blouse than your PC

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Pics please, obv.

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

Yang should give any extra tip he wants to give as an additional donation to his charities (Make-A-Wish Foundation, Feed the Children and the Ronald McDonald House Charities) on behalf of the dealers.

CEOPoker taught me this little secret-extra-charity-on-behalf-of-others tip. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: \"Jesus\" advises Yang to stiff dealers?
 

This may sound odd but didn't every player that entered effectively tip 1.8% ($180.00) before the event got underway win or lose? The prize won by Yang represented the monies left after the operating costs had been removed. Yang effectively contributed $180.00 just like everyone else.

Depends on how you look at it I guess.