Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

This thread is mildly ridiculous. There are much better ways to go about this rather then veiled assertions that mystery people are multi accounting. I think everyone knows the best channels to put an end to this. If you know about people multiaccounting they are TAKING MONEY DIRECTLY OUT OF YOUR POCKET! Tell the sites, get them shut down. Ambiguous threats and stories of people doing this won't do anything. It comes down to self policing in this case so if you know of people doing it then tell a site and have it stopped.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is mildly ridiculous. There are much better ways to go about this rather then veiled assertions that mystery people are multi accounting. I think everyone knows the best channels to put an end to this. If you know about people multiaccounting they are TAKING MONEY DIRECTLY OUT OF YOUR POCKET! Tell the sites, get them shut down. Ambiguous threats and stories of people doing this won't do anything. It comes down to self policing in this case so if you know of people doing it then tell a site and have it stopped.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong.

Telling the sites creates a witch hunt. Also, with simple technology for IP Changing and whatnot, there is always essentially no proof. However, if the poker community turns down multiaccounters and treats them as scum, then they might value their reputation over doubling their expectation.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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[ QUOTE ]


No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

1. Gobboboy stakes Mlagoo.
2. Mlagoo realizes gobboboy is a superior MTT player
3. Gobboboy has vested interest (see #1.)
4. You actually think gobboboy isn't going to tell mlagoo what to do/give advice because of ethics? HELL NO. (people like winning money not losing $) Gobbo essentially multiaccounted to some sense, but its completely within the rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

the assumptions made here are absurd. one might even call them ridiculously awful. numbering your speculations and randomly generated ideas of what happened doesn't all of a sudden give them any credit, either.

some actual facts:

1. gobboboy himself says that mlagoo is a better mtt player than he (gobbo) is. i'm not sure if mlagoo feels the same way or not, but either way i am sure that mlagoo has plenty of well deserved confidence in his own game. as an observer, i can say that watching matt play is very impressive and he is a total sicko. always knows what he's going to do, very rarely finds himself in a "tough" spot because he's always got a plan, etc. the claims made since matt's win that gobbo effectively multi accounted or had more control over "mlagoo" at the final few tables are completely baseless, insulting to matt's integrity and skills, and just flat out ridiculous.
2. mlagoo kept his cool better than anyone else in the house during the last 3 tables of the tourney, which leads to the next point
2. once matt got to the final 4-5 tables, everyone in the house really started paying attention and of course adding their own little input here and there as would be expected of a bunch of excited poker players. after one particular hand with 20-25 players where 3-4 of the people in the house were standing behind him loudly expressing their varied opinions in a manner that would have annoyed me a lot more than it seemed to annoy matt, matt took his laptop and left the room. everyone else in the house watched the rest of the tournament on separate laptops in a different room.





edit: stop derailing jeff's good thread with something that has NOTHING to do with the OP. this should be the last post about it.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, if the poker community turns down multiaccounters and treats them as scum, then they might value their reputation over doubling their expectation.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,
Jeff made a post about something that is a blatant violation of T&C that costs all of the people following the T&C equity. He asked that people stop voluntary and didn't out anybody.

If you want to talk about some gray areas like buying other people's accounts or some things that are blatantly not against T&C but may be immoral like receiving real-time hand advice from friends, start your own thread, and follow jeff's lead and don't name names--especially when you don't know wtf you're talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really not understand the relationship between operating two poker accounts with your mouse and operating two poker accounts verbally?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. I realized that was stupid when I went back to reread it, but it's already been quoted, so whatever.

Anyway, IMHO the sticky part of the issue that people are bringing up is that to me there's a clear difference between what stealhmunk described (the 50 mindless stealthmunks asking for advice over AIM) and what pretty much every professional online poker player does (the few AIM windows open, or the friend over the shoulder), but the difference is sort of ineffable. So, it's basically impossible to have an enforceable rule that prevents one and not the other.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


No disrespect at all meant to Mlagoo, but certainly some of you MTT guys at the house with far greater track records than Mlagoo were sweating and giving advice. I obviously don't know to what measure or extent this happened, and am not even necessarily saying its wrong or that I disagree with it, but it definitely violates the "1 person to a hand" rule.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

First of all, this rule does not exist online. It has been stated tons of times by Lee Jones in e-mails and posts on 2p2. So get off your high horse.

Secondly, you have no [censored] clue what happened in that tournament, and definitely don't have the right to accuse someone of doing something when you have no evidence to support it. It's things like this that hurt peoples reputations, and this isn't even a rumor, it's 100% pure speculation.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a ridiculously awful post.

1. Gobboboy stakes Mlagoo.
2. Mlagoo realizes gobboboy is a superior MTT player
3. Gobboboy has vested interest (see #1.)
4. You actually think gobboboy isn't going to tell mlagoo what to do/give advice because of ethics? HELL NO. (people like winning money not losing $) Gobbo essentially multiaccounted to some sense, but its completely within the rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

the assumptions made here are absurd. one might even call them ridiculously awful. numbering your speculations and randomly generated ideas of what happened doesn't all of a sudden give them any credit, either.

some actual facts:

1. gobboboy himself says that mlagoo is a better mtt player than he (gobbo) is. i'm not sure if mlagoo feels the same way or not, but either way i am sure that mlagoo has plenty of well deserved confidence in his own game. as an observer, i can say that watching matt play is very impressive and he is a total sicko. always knows what he's going to do, very rarely finds himself in a "tough" spot because he's always got a plan, etc. the claims made since matt's win that gobbo effectively multi accounted or had more control over "mlagoo" at the final few tables are completely baseless, insulting to matt's integrity and skills, and just flat out ridiculous.
2. mlagoo kept his cool better than anyone else in the house during the last 3 tables of the tourney, which leads to the next point
2. once matt got to the final 4-5 tables, everyone in the house really started paying attention and of course adding their own little input here and there as would be expected of a bunch of excited poker players. after one particular hand with 20-25 players where 3-4 of the people in the house were standing behind him loudly expressing their varied opinions in a manner that would have annoyed me a lot more than it seemed to annoy matt, matt took his laptop and left the room. everyone else in the house watched the rest of the tournament on separate laptops in a different room.





edit: stop derailing jeff's good thread with something that has NOTHING to do with the OP. this should be the last post about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?

I'm not insulting matt's integrity at all! (maybe his skills by saying gobbo is better than him but thats just because gobbo has FTd million/2nd chance and aussie and mlagoo only played micros)

During the stars sunday million and tilt 400k I've won, obviously I recieved a flurry of AIMs when I was deep. (One of them Jeff offering to buy my account lolz for 100k) I took advice obviously/discussed hands with players I respected more than me and discussed strategy in real time.
I feel nothing unethical about this. Just like mlaggoo should feel nothing unethical about the bunch of poker people hollering advice at him. I think you are missing my point. I'm saying what happened in that tourney, just gobbo saying one word to him, can be considered multiaccounting, and is a practice that goes down all the time.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

I'm staking two broke idiots in the sunday million and FTP 500k tomorrow.

If any of them go deep, it would be standard for me to tell them exactly what to do, and they'd rather have it that way as they don't want the stress of playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Am I multiaccounting scum?

No. And neither is mlaggoo. This will always be a part of online poker. There will always be people staking people and making +EV investments and giving advice to make those investments more +EV.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, if the poker community turns down multiaccounters and treats them as scum, then they might value their reputation over doubling their expectation.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes

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If this is going to happen then people doing the multiaccounting are going to need be made known to everybody who doesn't know. But it seems obvious that while some know who are doing it they are unwilling to say who.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm staking two broke idiots in the sunday million and FTP 500k tomorrow.

If any of them go deep, it would be standard for me to tell them exactly what to do, and they'd rather have it that way as they don't want the stress of playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Am I multiaccounting scum?

No. And neither is mlaggoo. This will always be a part of online poker. There will always be people staking people and making +EV investments and giving advice to make those investments more +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you leveling us? It's like your not even reading the posts before you reply.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm staking two broke idiots in the sunday million and FTP 500k tomorrow.

If any of them go deep, it would be standard for me to tell them exactly what to do, and they'd rather have it that way as they don't want the stress of playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Am I multiaccounting scum?

No. And neither is mlaggoo. This will always be a part of online poker. There will always be people staking people and making +EV investments and giving advice to make those investments more +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you leveling us? It's like your not even reading the posts before you reply.

[/ QUOTE ]

EC10's tone when he said I was insulting mlagoo's integrity made me post that hastily as I like mlagoo and EC10 and gobbo and the whole crew and wanted to say that I wasn't being condescending/callin them unethical saying I was going to do the same process that I claim can be considered multiaccounting tomorrow.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
All,
Jeff made a post about something that is a blatant violation of T&C that costs all of the people following the T&C equity. He asked that people stop voluntary and didn't out anybody.

If you want to talk about some gray areas like buying other people's accounts or some things that are blatantly not against T&C but may be immoral like receiving real-time hand advice from friends, start your own thread, and follow jeff's lead and don't name names--especially when you don't know wtf you're talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really not understand the relationship between operating two poker accounts with your mouse and operating two poker accounts verbally?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. I realized that was stupid when I went back to reread it, but it's already been quoted, so whatever.

Anyway, IMHO the sticky part of the issue that people are bringing up is that to me there's a clear difference between what stealhmunk described (the 50 mindless stealthmunks asking for advice over AIM) and what pretty much every professional online poker player does (the few AIM windows open, or the friend over the shoulder), but the difference is sort of ineffable. So, it's basically impossible to have an enforceable rule that prevents one and not the other.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is basically my entire point and I think that every single "multiaccounting act" can somehow be grouped into this level so its best to just "accept" it as a peril of online poker.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

By the way guys a member of team Pokerstars was investigated for multiaccounting. He was cleared when it was determined that he staked/advised like Justin is talking about.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way guys a member of team Pokerstars was investigated for multiaccounting. He was cleared when it was determined that he staked/advised like Justin is talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Investigated." Lol. What can stars do? Check identification of the players? Well, the players can be real players and send in ID. Check IP addresses? Even if you ignore the fact that IP addresses can be easily manipulated, it is well known that players have "poker houses" and go play together during the sunday grind, or just live together like in vegas now for WSOP.

Now if the questionable people had to go under oath in a jury and the owners of the accounts too, that would be an interesting "investigation."

I guess my point is its never going to end. Even if you trap a multiaccounter, e-mail the site, get him banned. He'll just repop again and quad-account to get his expectation back from the money confiscated. lolz.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

blah I really didn't mean to accuse Mlagoo of cheating or anything of the sort. I simply used that example because it was recent, there were pictures and stories posted of a actionjeff/gobo/ etc. celebrating after the win, so it was clear you were all at least at the house.

I explicity said in my post that I have no idea to what extent any help/advice actually occured, I was just attempting to illustrate the complexity of the situation with regard to the online poker world.

I clearly didn't explain myself well/was misunderstood here.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm staking two broke idiots in the sunday million and FTP 500k tomorrow.

If any of them go deep, it would be standard for me to tell them exactly what to do, and they'd rather have it that way as they don't want the stress of playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Am I multiaccounting scum?

No. And neither is mlaggoo. This will always be a part of online poker. There will always be people staking people and making +EV investments and giving advice to make those investments more +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, you are exhibiting like a staggering amount of stupidity in this thread. Kudos.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
blah I really didn't mean to accuse Mlagoo of cheating or anything of the sort. I simply used that example because it was recent, there were pictures and stories posted of a actionjeff/gobo/ etc. celebrating after the win, so it was clear you were all at least at the house.

I explicity said in my post that I have no idea to what extent any help/advice actually occured, I was just attempting to illustrate the complexity of the situation with regard to the online poker world.

I clearly didn't explain myself well/was misunderstood here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll quote that for myself as well. Including the skill part. Mlagoo you own gobbo! w/e idc. lolz. I just used it as an example as well.

K I'm out now.

p.s. I kind of am pretty zealous on this topic because JJProdigy is my best friend from poker and he/zeejustin are v misunderstood/unfortunate that they just caught the wrath of what EVERYONE LITERALLY EVERYONE (except for me I never played a hand of partypoker on my life f me to tears) was doing.

People would 10 account party lolz.

K time to go out. Good post Jeff obv.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
I kind of am pretty zealous on this topic because JJProdigy is my best friend from poker and he/zeejustin are v misunderstood/unfortunate that they just caught the wrath of what EVERYONE LITERALLY EVERYONE (except for me I never played a hand of partypoker on my life f me to tears) was doing.

[/ QUOTE ]
I never did this and these are the exact implications I resent when these discussions come up. The fact that it is assumed that this is the status quo bugs the [censored] hell out of me. Angers me.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

Just cant stop wondering.

Someone who is great at poker and makes more money then he needs should care alot more about his integrity and ethics just to feel good and be proud of oneself.

Being respected is far more important then some extra bucks that doesnt improve your life style that much.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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[ QUOTE ]
EVERYONE LITERALLY EVERYONE

[/ QUOTE ]

Who?

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EVERYONE LITERALLY EVERYONE

[/ QUOTE ]

Who?

[/ QUOTE ]

Other than the standard more than one account to more than 4-table, I never multi-accounted in my life, and have never sat at the same table as myself when I did have 3 accounts for the purpose of 12-tabling.

So, yeah, you're wrong...

And SOME of us actually DO have morals.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunday
 

I wonder why no one complains when people think I am helping people I stake...maybe its...oh jdhaskjfhksdhfksah.

I dont get warning letters, I get thank you notes from their opponents.

sheets

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
I started this thread to make people aware of the situation. Not to destroy the reputations of people I like.


And the people doing this need to know that we know they are doing it, and don't approve of it. If they still choose to multi-account in the future, they risk one of many people in the know getting pissed and turning them in. -Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

My friends are cheating scumbags! But I like them too much to turn them in! So I will spread vague rumours but do nothing!

WTF [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


Edit: LOL Sheets

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...8&fpart=all

Surely the above thread removes any doubt that Gobboboy was heavily involved in the Sunday Million win?

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

For the love of christ, people, I helped matt, yes, but he made all the final decisions and there were a lot of things that I disagreed with at the final table. That hand was one result of tons of people shouting [censored] at him, but he made all the decisions himself. I wouldn't lie, because even if I did tell him how to play the final table, IT WOULDN'T BE WRONG.

Just drop the subject.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
For the love of christ, people, I helped matt, yes, but he made all the final decisions and there were a lot of things that I disagreed with at the final table. That hand was one result of tons of people shouting [censored] at him, but he made all the decisions himself. I wouldn't lie, because even if I did tell him how to play the final table, IT WOULDN'T BE WRONG.

Just drop the subject.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I think there is an argument that you would be a 50% multiaccounter as you entered the same tournament, and had 50%, you technically played 1.5 accounts.

I engage in this process and wonder the ethics behind it and it is obviously relevant to the whole multiaccount fiasco.

Why would we drop this insanely relevant subject to the online poker MTT world?

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunday
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder why no one complains when people think I am helping people I stake...maybe its...oh jdhaskjfhksdhfksah.

I dont get warning letters, I get thank you notes from their opponents.

sheets

[/ QUOTE ]

i lol'd

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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[ QUOTE ]

Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

I don't see what exactly you are doing to decrease the multi accounting. You are not outing anyone as a multi accounter, you even say you won't snitch on them. You are telling a bunch of people HEY GUYS THERE ARE SOME GUYS CHEATING, I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I'M NOT TELLING. What is that doing?

nothing at all. If you want to change this. Do it. Grow some balls and out people. Report them. You aren't going to guilt people into changing, at best you will force people to be quiet about it. But all that does is hide the problem not fix it. Do you think there are people here saying 'Oh no Action Jeff is upset with me, I'm gonna change'. Probably not.

Unless the thread contains names and evidence, then starting this thread really is not going to help change this situation.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

I don't see what exactly you are doing to decrease the multi accounting. You are not outing anyone as a multi accounter, you even say you won't snitch on them. You are telling a bunch of people HEY GUYS THERE ARE SOME GUYS CHEATING, I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I'M NOT TELLING. What is that doing?

nothing at all. If you want to change this. Do it. Grow some balls and out people. Report them. You aren't going to guilt people into changing, at best you will force people to be quiet about it. But all that does is hide the problem not fix it. Do you think there are people here saying 'Oh no Action Jeff is upset with me, I'm gonna change'. Probably not.

Unless the thread contains names and evidence, then starting this thread really is not going to help change this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I've taken this is a warning. If they continue to multiaccount after this I'm under the assumption the names will become known or they will be turned into the sites. If this isn't the case I agree this is somewhat pointless.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

I don't see what exactly you are doing to decrease the multi accounting. You are not outing anyone as a multi accounter, you even say you won't snitch on them. You are telling a bunch of people HEY GUYS THERE ARE SOME GUYS CHEATING, I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I'M NOT TELLING. What is that doing?

nothing at all. If you want to change this. Do it. Grow some balls and out people. Report them. You aren't going to guilt people into changing, at best you will force people to be quiet about it. But all that does is hide the problem not fix it. Do you think there are people here saying 'Oh no Action Jeff is upset with me, I'm gonna change'. Probably not.

Unless the thread contains names and evidence, then starting this thread really is not going to help change this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I've taken this is a warning. If they continue to multiaccount after this I'm under the assumption the names will become known or they will be turned into the sites. If this isn't the case I agree this is somewhat pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

badgerpro multiaccounts

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunday
 

the multiaccounting on a multi is wrong if can means collusion,but is any sure way to check that? like on collusion you can check it and that is the important. if it is not a sure way for a check then i think it must be free for everyone to do it and without penaldies.
anyway someone can meet his friend on a final table. and that is exaclty the same and normal (without collusion or course) so i dont find the reason to talk for that as a cheating problem. it is as cheating as to meet one of your friends in a final table. i would like to hear what actionjeff has to say on that.

really why dont they just play another multi on the same time and not the same?

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
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Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

I don't see what exactly you are doing to decrease the multi accounting. You are not outing anyone as a multi accounter, you even say you won't snitch on them. You are telling a bunch of people HEY GUYS THERE ARE SOME GUYS CHEATING, I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I'M NOT TELLING. What is that doing?

nothing at all. If you want to change this. Do it. Grow some balls and out people. Report them. You aren't going to guilt people into changing, at best you will force people to be quiet about it. But all that does is hide the problem not fix it. Do you think there are people here saying 'Oh no Action Jeff is upset with me, I'm gonna change'. Probably not.

Unless the thread contains names and evidence, then starting this thread really is not going to help change this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I've taken this is a warning. If they continue to multiaccount after this I'm under the assumption the names will become known or they will be turned into the sites. If this isn't the case I agree this is somewhat pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

badgerpro multiaccounts

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, check it out at:

badgerprocheats.com [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Well, there is no longer a grey line. There is no excuse. Multi-accounting tournaments is cheating! The sites have all specifically stated that this is cheating. Examples have been made and hundreds of thousands of dollars have been taken from people, accounts banned and more, to make it clear that this is cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was never a gray line. How one could think it was, I have no idea.


I don't know if you were playing high stakes MTTs over 2 years ago, but there was a period of time when the TOC of UltimateBet did not even state that entering a tournament on more than one account was not allowed.

idiot who posted above,

Last response to these clown like posts. I don't give a [censored]. FYI there are plenty of people who multi account and who I am not friends with or outright dislike. That has nothing to do with it. I have 0 obligation to out someone doing something prohibited by the sites. There are dozens who have names like me who could report people if they wanted to. People who can say "I know who is doing this, and will report them in the future if they do it in the future" right now. They haven't done that yet. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they are like me and feel like they don't have the authority to do such a thing, and that it would place their own well being in jeopardy. It would be different if this was a ring of people colluding or something like that. I consider that to be different, and thats my opinion, and if you feel differently and want to be judgemental then that is your call but just be happy that I made this post to at least ATTEMPT to cut down on this practice and stfu with the personal attacks.

None of those guys wanted to take the initiative to start this thread though. So I'm doing it, because I want people to know about this, and I want the poker community to decide what to do about this on their own. People still multi-account, still act like it is acceptable as long as they can evade detection, and still brag about their multi accounting wins to their friends. Everyone should know this. Everyone should agree this is unethical and what actions they choose to take is completely their decision.

I did not make this post to impose on anyone with my opinions, I made it as a public service announcement to the MTT community. What opinions they form, and what they choose to do, is their decision.

-Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeff,

I don't see what exactly you are doing to decrease the multi accounting. You are not outing anyone as a multi accounter, you even say you won't snitch on them. You are telling a bunch of people HEY GUYS THERE ARE SOME GUYS CHEATING, I KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT I'M NOT TELLING. What is that doing?

nothing at all. If you want to change this. Do it. Grow some balls and out people. Report them. You aren't going to guilt people into changing, at best you will force people to be quiet about it. But all that does is hide the problem not fix it. Do you think there are people here saying 'Oh no Action Jeff is upset with me, I'm gonna change'. Probably not.

Unless the thread contains names and evidence, then starting this thread really is not going to help change this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I've taken this is a warning. If they continue to multiaccount after this I'm under the assumption the names will become known or they will be turned into the sites. If this isn't the case I agree this is somewhat pointless.

[/ QUOTE ]

badgerpro multiaccounts

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, check it out at:

badgerprocheats.com [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

i've been meaning to buy that name forever

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

Agree w/ Badger, etc about some names need to be called out soon.

Also, Jeff...I love the topic and your game...you say you have seen some of the top players numerous times in one tournament before...is this like the $215 rebuy or just all the Sunday tournaments in general?

Good luck to all the non multi-accounters tomorrow.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

Why can't this just be an official warning, you know who they are and if they continue doing it, you will rat them out. That seems fair to everybody, even if they are your friends. I play all the Sunday majors and the 1k's and it's pretty sick that people are still doing this. What's worse is that people know who these people are, but don't do anything about it, because they are friends with the people doing it.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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IMO, the shady [censored] in online poker will never end. Sheets/bax/timex staking infinite idiots is no different than multiaccounting.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense to bax/sheets, but I'm pretty sure that many, if not most of the people we stake are better than we are.

I'm trying to think of the last time I tried helping someone I back who went deep in an MTT, the convo went something like this:

"mind sharing hands, Dan"
"no, you [censored] suck, I'm blocking you until I win this thing"
rinse and repeat

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

omg - i really thought this multiaccounting had been stopped.

it is terrible how you - mostly american - guys work together on hands as they are happening and have 2+ entries in a tournament.

so many of you brag about your rankings and results - WELL - SURELY IF YOU ARE THAT GOOD THEN YOU WOULDN'T NEED TO CHEAT BY GETTING ADVICE FROM FRIENDS AND MULTIACCOUNTING?

the case is obv - indivdually. most of you are mediocre. together - an effective cheating force...

i have never asked anyone for advice on a hand when i was playing it or multiaccounted. i make a profit in every format of my poker.

it really does disgust me how most of you think it is ok to give advice in the middle of a hand and worse when living together etc....

it shows a general immaturity in the mtt online community. you don't see your victims... so you don't feel remorse..

it'll be a while before these multi-accounting/advice giving chumps take a bracelet etc.... they can't even win on their own.

i am shocked and saddened. i have linked this thread in several forums used by recreational players who you would consider 'fish' or your wage. i hope they decide to play less and not let you benefit.

jeff should phone up stars and the other sites right now and tell everything imo. he acts like he is in the mafia. lol wtf are a fat bunch of magic the gathering geeks going to threaten you with? you are as bad as them jeff. it's almost lke you are taunting the honest players....

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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wtf are a fat bunch of magic the gathering geeks going to threaten you with? you are as bad as them jeff

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False, jeff works out 5hours a day.

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9...suspecthi8.jpg
"I'm not a rat Agent Kujan"

Re: To the Multi-Accounters : some thoughts before this upcoming Sunda
 

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wtf are a fat bunch of magic the gathering geeks going to threaten you with? you are as bad as them jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

False, jeff works out 5hours a day.

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And when he went to get a haircut, he showed the barber a picture of Patrik.