Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

i obv haven't played against aba, but against most players i think leading is perfectly fine. i think call>fold>c/r

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

I think I would c/f usually, c/c against some people. Generally c/c against not so great people or really great people but not the run-of-the-mill winners. I've never played against aba, but assume he is great so i would prob c/c.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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i obv haven't played against aba, but against most players i think leading is perfectly fine. i think call>fold>c/r

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why? i know what he can put me on, but what can he look me up with if i lead?

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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I think I would c/f usually, c/c against some people. Generally c/c against not so great people or really great people but not the run-of-the-mill winners. I've never played against aba, but assume he is great so i would prob c/c.

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if we assume (and it's a good assumption, clearly) that he is great then c/r should be far and away better than c/c. and wouldn't c/f be better, still? does a great player just make a transparent bluff like this?

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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I think I would c/f usually, c/c against some people. Generally c/c against not so great people or really great people but not the run-of-the-mill winners. I've never played against aba, but assume he is great so i would prob c/c.

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if we assume (and it's a good assumption, clearly) that he is great then c/r should be far and away better than c/c. and wouldn't c/f be better, still? does a great player just make a transparent bluff like this?

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I think great players WILL make transparent bluffs like this because you assume they won't. But yes, I think c/f is fine. No, I dont think c/r is good at all, because he won't VB hands like AQ unless he's going to call a c/r on such a draw heavy board which all missed on the turn. I'd like a c/r for value here with a strong hand since it would let him bluff and would also give you a chance for him to call a c/r with a strong ace.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

c/f or c/r

c/c is pretty bad against a good player given the action

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

meh i think c/r kinda looks FOS here.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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meh i think c/r kinda looks FOS here.

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which is why its good for value in certain battles. Easy bet, consider calling.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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i think once brian checks the flop behind you're probably okay,

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lol what? why? You think brian isnt check/raising a set a lot of the time here? Or slightly better Axss?

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i suppose he could check a set but probably not a slightly better Axss IMO

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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river c/r would definitely be a bluff not for value

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this is why i only c/r a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] river, as far as non hearts i like betting and folding.. checking and calling is pretty weak unless its a bluff catcher

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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i think once brian checks the flop behind you're probably okay,

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lol what? why? You think brian isnt check/raising a set a lot of the time here? Or slightly better Axss?

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i suppose he could check a set but probably not a slightly better Axss IMO

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lol what makes you think you can read aba in such an exploitable way? Surely aba is capable of both betting and checkraising a set, and I have no clue why you think he wouldn't be checking Ax here, esp considering he is in a very similar spot to krantz and everyone said check to krantz.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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river c/r would definitely be a bluff not for value

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this is why i only c/r a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] river, as far as non hearts i like betting and folding.. checking and calling is pretty weak unless its a bluff catcher

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"unless it's a bluff catcher" uhhhh no [censored], wtf else would it be here?

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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i think once brian checks the flop behind you're probably okay,

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lol what? why? You think brian isnt check/raising a set a lot of the time here? Or slightly better Axss?

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i suppose he could check a set but probably not a slightly better Axss IMO

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lol what makes you think you can read aba in such an exploitable way? Surely aba is capable of both betting and checkraising a set, and I have no clue why you think he wouldn't be checking Ax here, esp considering he is in a very similar spot to krantz and everyone said check to krantz.

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ya ur right.. i try to understand what the great one thinks but who knows.. he could have two jokers here hah

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

how is this anything but a c/c hes prolly not calling worse/bluff raising a led. hes def gonna bet better and chk down and med hand. buttt he will have to bet something with j10,76, hearts.
as for a river c/r it could be optimal if u think u could get him to dump Ax better.with your image i prolly woulnt try it tho

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

i havent played w/ him before

but offhand i feel like all three river plays could be okay depending on how the game is flowing and how you're perceived.
i actually kinda like c/f, because your line looks so much like you are going to call the river imo.
i like c/c cause aba knows his bet looks like its going for value, so thats just leveling etc. etc. making c/c and c/f about the same imo.
c/r is really interesting and def the best choice if he folds better A's.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

Lead > c/r > c/c > c/f

I like to lead here because that's what you would do if you missed your draw. But like you said he might now even have a hand to call you unless he got like 9To. I think it's superior to all the other options because #1 you keep pressure agst a realy good player. #2 If called, leading out is obv better then c/c. #3 I don't think aba is strong here, so if he was going for a bluff when checked, He might raise bluff too and you're making more $$ this way. And again, it's never bad to get respect from one of the best at your table.

The problem with c/c and c/f is that it's highly exploitable and you're missing alot of value on the long run. Yes he might bluff you if you check, but be sure that he won't make that mistake twice. Where c/f is just too weak given the action on the flop and Turn 3 way with a realy loose player.

The only problem I see with c/r is that besides 53, nothing got there and aba knows that, so it all comes down to your image. Since you're playing with a realy good tricky player and your hand as a little value, I think that leading out is better, but c/r is not bad either.

how big would be that c/r ?? i think there's around 10k in the pot so like 18k or so ??

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

turn bet. River bet/fold to a raise is very good. You've shown such mass strength/complete bluff by the river that he isn't raising you unless he has a better hand. And you get called by lots of weaker hands because the flush draw missed.

c/r seems a little audacious to me. I mean it certainly isnt value (he checks behind with any weaker hand), so it must be a bluff. However, the line stinks of a busted flush draw and I think aba looks you up with any hand he value bets on the river.

c/c is ok, a bluffcatcher line. Might be good if aba makes bluffs in obvious spots (but I dont think he does that often). Is good against the random donk that likes to make dumb bluffs though.

c/f: perhaps a little too weak-tight, espically against aba in this situation. Plus you have to wonder that a lot aba's stronger hands would have simply raised the turn or bet the flop.

Major problem with checking remains that aba's weaker hands check behind and you miss value. Yes he bluffs bet, but I dont think he bets here often.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

aba is pretty damn good at picking off bluffs I don't think I cr him

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

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i think once brian checks the flop behind you're probably okay,

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lol what? why? You think brian isnt check/raising a set a lot of the time here? Or slightly better Axss?

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i suppose he could check a set but probably not a slightly better Axss IMO

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LOLOLOLOL this comment wins

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

looks like c/c is pretty unexploitable in this situation.

however, c/r is also something i would sometimes do here as it gets rid of thin value bets (but then again, aba can call thin too)

bet/folding is the worst imo.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

I think I would take your exact line on every street, c/c the river. every other river line than c/c just seems useless, maaaaybe bet/call. But I like it as is.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

i have no business postiong here at all but i will anyways although what i say prolly doesnt have much merit. seems like the only hands u get value from when u bet get called an win are kk- tt (which is pretty unlikely pair of 9's or 8's (pretty likely) pocket 7's -5's (also unlikely) and the lower of that range might not even call.also it doesnt serve well as a blocker because most of the hands he beats u with hes going to raise u with it might not even be a good blocker vs busted draw b/c he might bluff raise u and if u do get raised i guess it would be a close call/fold situation that u dont wanna be in. if u check u can snap off a bluff from lower fl draws str8 draws (107,j10,67) but hell also bet every hand that beats u for value and prolly bet close to none for value that u beat. check call doesnt seem that great either but seems better than leading

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

if he bets the river, it seems like it is either as a pure bluff or to snap call a river CR

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

lead / call, river.

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

any results?

bump...

Re: 100/200 150bb deep - play along
 

I feel like you should lead the river

results
 

i checked and called 3/4 pot and he had AJ

Re: results
 

I've watched a few of aba's videos on CardRunners before. One hand I remember was where he was in your position and led the turn with a gutshot saying they would probably fold and he could potentially fire the river if he missed. So I would assume he thinks villians are capable of this too. For this reason, I'd probably block the river around 5/8 pot.