Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure that this thread is meant to point out the futility of arguing with someone about anything after they've rejected the key evidence. Well done.

Person A: Gravity exits.

Person B: Not everywhere.

Person A: What?

Person B: Not on Pluto.

Person A: What the hell are you talking about?

Person B: Have you ever been to Pluto? I didn't think so! We have no idea if there's gravity there or not.

Person A: Well, it still orbits the sun.

Person B: You haven't even seen Pluto.

Person A: Well, it's pretty obvious that we have gravity here.

Person B: Who cares if we experience some local phenomenon? They don't have it in Antarctica.

Person A: You gotta be [censored] me.

Person B: How else do you explain penguins?

Person A: What the hell do they have to do with gravity?

Person B: That's exactly the question that I'm raising with the Pluto example!

Person A: So you're trying to use penguins as another Pluto. I've seen penguins, and they obey gravity.

Person B: Please provide me with a mechanism for showing why a penguin that you've seen has anything to do with a penguin in Antarctica.

Person A: Ok. Now you're just being retarded. Why are you so smug?

Person B: Why shouldn't I be? You're the one who can't back up your unscientific beliefs.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what you are saying is penguins are to blame for gravity? Or that pluto caused 9/11?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
Notice that I am calling for a sequential mechanism.

[/ QUOTE ]

What exactly do you mean by that?

After the initial floor collapses, the next floor underneath is hit by many times the weight of what it previously supported. It gives way and drops to the next with even more weight and momentum. So the floors rapidly collapse in sequence. This was explained in detail by the link I provided you sometime back featuring the guy from Lawrence Livermore labs. The analyst indicated the collapse would be so quick as to approach the speed of freefall. Films clearly show the floors collapsing in sequence as the collapse front drives downward. There is no universal, instant collapse as expected with planned demolitions.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

There are many pictures of tall vertical steel columns still standing for many seconds after the collapse. Try explaining those without using a sequential collapse - you can't. A planned demolition would have brought them all down together, floors pancaking leave behind the vertical steel.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are many pictures of tall vertical steel columns still standing for many seconds after the collapse. Try explaining those without using a sequential collapse - you can't. A planned demolition would have brought them all down together, floors pancaking leave behind the vertical steel.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why they only blew CERTAIN columns. They wanted us to think that it was a sequential collapse.

Come on, man. This is Conspiracy 101.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nielso, notice something important about this photo you provided.

As I understand you, the arrow points to a puff caused by an explosion that helped bring the tower down. But if you watch the film of it, there is NO COLLAPSE at the point where you see the puff. The "explosion" point does not join in the collapse until the pancaking front reaches that point.

Further, if we see that one "detonation," why don't we see similar puffs all the way down the structure? The standard explanation -- that the puff was caused by thousands of tons of material forcing air down through stairwells and elevator shafts -- is entirely credible to me.

And why are we seeing an explosion at all if it was done with thermite? And how could thermite, which is a slow burn, not an explosion, be minutely timed on all the floors, as conspiracy theories demand?
http://usera.imagecave.com/markyannone/Album9/wtc.jpg

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

My apologies if this has been mentioned already, but:
[ QUOTE ]
Jones clearly documents the fact that liquid aluminum is silver and not orange

[/ QUOTE ]
black body radiation FTW

Can you afford to take someone who makes such patently idiotic statements about seriously about anything?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are many pictures of tall vertical steel columns still standing for many seconds after the collapse. Try explaining those without using a sequential collapse - you can't. A planned demolition would have brought them all down together, floors pancaking leave behind the vertical steel.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why they only blew CERTAIN columns. They wanted us to think that it was a sequential collapse.

Come on, man. This is Conspiracy 101.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. It's sort of like how all those dinosaur bones were buried by God and He made the universe APPEAR to be 13.2 billion years old to test our faith. Gotcha ya! I won't be fooled again.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Why would someone want to fly a plane into a building AND blow it up with explosives? It seems like one or the other would accomplish the same task.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

You've obviously never had a tragic belt snap incident saved at the last moment by your pair of suspenders have you?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why would someone want to fly a plane into a building AND blow it up with explosives? It seems like one or the other would accomplish the same task.

[/ QUOTE ]

The conspiracy nuts refuse to believe that flying a fully-fueled jet arliner into a building would be sufficient to cause it to collapse. Supposedly, the jets crashing into the building were to distract us from the *real* cause of the collapse.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

This is Borodog here. I believe I will be using this account for the forseeable future. If some kindly mod could give this account the undertitle of Borodog I would appreciate it.

Anyway, I wanted to put this AIM conversation that I had with Nielsio on the record, as I think it was a good, if ultimately futile, discussion. The screen names have been changed by the way.

[15:50] Borodog: Don't take this the wrong way, but I don't think you understand the physics of the WTC collapses.
[15:50] Nielsio: That doesn't really help me
[15:50] Borodog: Do you know how much energy was stored in each tower, available for demolition was the collapse began?
[15:50] Borodog: *once
[15:51] Nielsio: There is a problem when you a combination of a number of factors
[15:51] Nielsio: *have
[15:51] Borodog: I'm not talking about that
[15:51] Borodog: I'm talking about the energy avaliable for demolition
[15:52] Nielsio: If you say that gravity was enough for the collapse, then you cannot account for either the speed of the collapse OR the dust
[15:52] Borodog: it's about a trillion joules per tower.
[15:52] Borodog: whoever told you that is simply wrong
[15:52] Borodog: the dust is solely from drywall
[15:52] Borodog: do know how much drywall was in that building?
[15:52] Borodog: millions of pounds
[15:53] Nielsio: It doesn't just hop up in the air and turn to micro-dust
[15:53] Borodog: it get's crushed instantaneously, yes
[15:53] Borodog: as the higheer floors plow into any individual floor like a freight train
[15:53] Borodog: take a peice of drywall, and strike it with a hammer
[15:54] Borodog: it is immediately pulverized and turned to dust; which explodes in every direction
[15:54] Borodog: try it
[15:54] Borodog: a trillion joules
[15:55] Nielsio: What about the floors
[15:55] Nielsio: Do they also explode instantly?
[15:56] Borodog: when hundreds of thousands of tons slam into them at a hundred miles per hour?
[15:56] Borodog: Yes.
[15:57] Nielsio: So do the floors offer resistance or no?
[15:58] Borodog: You know the answer is yes, but you also know that the resistance offered is completely ne igable.
[15:58] Nielsio: (floors+inner and outer steel frame)
[15:58] Borodog: Dude, its THOUSANDS OF TONS MOVING AT HIGH SPEED. You have no intuitive understanding of an impact like that.
[15:59] Nielsio: Ok, so let's say we have this big mass of body moving straight down
[16:00] Nielsio: Breaking through everything it comes upon
[16:00] Nielsio: Which offers almost no resistance
[16:00] Nielsio: Then it would seem to me that I would not expect this much dust
[16:00] Nielsio: Because in order to have that, you need resistance
[16:01] Borodog: dude, there was millions of pounds of drywall, which is little more than compressed dust
[16:01] Nielsio: On the other hand, I would then also not expect such a massive energy outwards
[16:01] Borodog: come on. You know it doesn't work like that. When a dump truck runs into a fly, does the truck notice the fly? No. But the fly sure as hell notices the truck.
[16:02] Borodog: What, exactly, does "energy outwards" mean?
[16:02] Borodog: I'll give you a hint; it has no meaning. Energy does not have direction.
[16:02] Nielsio: http://usera.imagecave.com/markyannone/Album9/wtc.jpg
[16:02] Nielsio: That kind of outward energy
[16:02] Borodog: There is no such thing
[16:02] Nielsio: Outward force
[16:02] Nielsio: http://www.serendipity.li/wot/finn/5/sor11000.jpg
[16:03] Nielsio: Also, I would be interested in a detailed sequential mechanism
[16:03] Nielsio: Which you seem to be hinting at
[16:03] Borodog: This is just silly dude. The building is full of air. As the building collapses, the drywall is instantaneously pulverized into dust and blown out by air pressure.
[16:06] Borodog: Do you really find it so hard to believe that dust from a building collapse can be blown out to a distance of X from a building that is X wide and almost 9X tall?
[16:06] Borodog: I mean, honestly?
[16:06] Nielsio: Yes
[16:06] Nielsio: http://www.columbia.edu/~rr91/images...20collapse.jpg
[16:06] Nielsio: Usually, buildings behave much much more like objects
[16:07] Nielsio: With structural integrity
[16:07] Borodog: Most building are dropped from the bottom down when they are demolished, not from the top down.
[16:08] Borodog: The whole building falls in free fall. In this case the collapse started at the top; the upper floors acted like a snowplow, building up mass and momentum as they fell.
[16:08] Nielsio: If that is the case, it should be pretty easy to turn that into a model
[16:08] Borodog: People have.
[16:08] Nielsio: Into something that predicts what happens
[16:09] Nielsio: And makes it understandable
[16:09] Nielsio: No, not really
[16:09] Borodog: It's perfectly understanable.
[16:09] Nielsio: You cannot get the blueprints; it's illegal
[16:09] Nielsio: The Discovery Channel models are not even funny
[16:10] Nielsio: Also:
[16:10] Nielsio: NIST has not described any such sequential mechanism
[16:10] Nielsio: It does not go further than ' obal collapse ensued'
[16:11] Nielsio: I would be seriously interested in that
[16:12] Nielsio: Do you have a gmail address? I have some pictures of strucural failures and fires
[16:12] Nielsio: They're pretty interesting
[16:12] Borodog: Dude. I have no idea what to say to you. The energy avaible for those collapse was 5% of the energy of an ATOMIC BOMB. If you don't think you can knock down a skyscraper with that, or eject some dust a few hundred feet, then you just simply want the conspiracy more.
[16:13] Nielsio: Energy != sequential mechanism that takes into account all structural elements
[16:17] Borodog: You want the conspiracy more.
[16:18] Nielsio: What do you mean
[16:18] Nielsio: ' obal collapse ensued' is not a sufficient explanation
[16:18] Nielsio: In fact, it's not an explanation
[16:18] Nielsio: It's god of the gaps
[16:18] Nielsio: And I don't accept that
[16:19] Borodog: No, it isn't.. The building burned for 7 hours or something until the structural steel failed.
[16:19] Borodog: It was already damaged by being STRUCK BY A JUMBO JET FUEL OF JET FUEL.
[16:20] Borodog: A bomb indeed went off in each tower. THEY HAD WINGS.
[16:20] Nielsio: Actually, the north tower burned for less than an hour
[16:20] Borodog: After being struck by a JUMBO JET FULL OF JET FUEL
[16:20] Nielsio: So
[16:20] Borodog: The fireballs blew out through the far side of the building.
[16:20] Nielsio: These buildings were designed to take airplane hits
[16:21] Borodog: Do you honestly think there's no possibility that the structure was damaged?
[16:21] Nielsio: You're avoiding the issue
[16:21] Borodog: no, I'm not
[16:21] Nielsio: Is ' obal collapse ensued' a sufficient explanation or not?
[16:21] Borodog: you're avoiding the bleedin y obvious
[16:23] Borodog: I think the JUMBO JETS FULL OF JET FUEL and the ensuing GIANT EXPLOSIONS IN THE BUILDING STRUCTURES is a sufficient explanation.
[16:23] Nielsio: If you think it's so obvious then it should be quite easy to give a detailed description of everything that happens during those 12-15 seconds that they come down
[16:23] Nielsio: A description that explains what we see on the tapes
[16:24] Nielsio: That explains the physical evidence (dust, speed, etc)
[16:24] Nielsio: That would shut the whole 9-11 thing up
[16:24] Nielsio: Completely
[16:24] Nielsio: It would shut me up
[16:24] Borodog: No, it wouldn't.
[16:27] Nielsio: Try me
[16:27] Borodog: Dude, a plane full of jet fuel exploding in the middle of a building doesn't shut you up. Some model filled with assumptions you would just claim were wrong or unjustifiable would not help.
[16:27] Nielsio: I would also like to note that NIST would be extremely interested in such a description
[16:28] Nielsio: You could probably get a whole bunch of money for that
[16:29] Borodog: sigh
[16:29] Nielsio: You're assuming your conclusions sir
[16:30] Borodog: I wish you would just step back and listen to the way you sound. This is what I hear when you talk about this: "How could a plane full of jet fuel slamming into a building and exploding cause it to collapse?"
[16:32] Nielsio: So no sequential mechanism from you?
[16:32] Borodog: So. Which is greater? Probability that a plane full of jet fuel slamming into a bilding and exploding could make it collapse, or, a giant, well organized conspiracy was undertaken by the incompetents in government.
[16:32] Nielsio: That's a pity
[16:32] Borodog: I have a sequential mechanism
[16:33] Borodog: It starts with a jumbo jet full of jet fuel slamming into the building, exploding in the heart of the structure and blowing out the far side, burning for hours, and then the steel failing.
[16:33] Borodog: How incredibly impossible!
[16:35] Nielsio: It's up to you: you claim what happens after is easy and comprehensible. So why don't you or why doesn't anybody?
[16:35] Borodog: I just did.
[16:35] Nielsio: Describe/model it for the rest of us
[16:35] Nielsio: Make it a school project
[16:36] Borodog: Why don't you show that an explosion in the midst of the steel structure of the WTC couldn't damage it to the point of failure?
[16:36] Nielsio: Get on Discovery Channel
[16:37] Borodog: Why bother? What good would it do? P(structural failure) is already >> P(giant conspiracy), and it doesn't phase you.
[16:37] Borodog: What could would shifting those numbers another order of magnitude do?
[16:38] Nielsio: Structural failure (which hasn't been proven btw) != sequential mechanism of disintegration/collapse
[16:38] Nielsio: NIST did a test with a life-size model
[16:38] Borodog: I gave you a sequential mechanism.
[16:39] Nielsio: They couldn't reproduce it
[16:39] Borodog: a life sized model? Of the WTC towers?
[16:39] Borodog: Uh, not?
[16:39] Nielsio: No, of columns
[16:39] Borodog: They slammed a jumbo jet full of jet fuel into some steel collumns and didn't damage them?
[16:39] Borodog: LINK?
[16:40] Borodog: And those columns were supporting tens of thousands of tons at the time?
[16:42] Nielsio: It's mentioned in here:
http://thefreedomchannel.blogspot.co...anisms-of.html
[16:42] Nielsio: I'll ttyl
[16:43] Borodog: later
[16:43] Borodog: no hard feelings
[16:43] Borodog: good argument
[16:43] Nielsio: Meh, a bit too much cynicism
[16:47] Borodog: He is TOTALLY NE ECTING THE IMPACT AND EXPLOSION. All he's talking about is fire. He's also ne ecting the fact that those structural members had a hundred thousands tons sitting on top of them stressing them during the fire, after they'd already been damaged by the impact.
[16:48] Borodog: and explosion

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nielsio is batshit insane? I guess the Palestinians hate the Jews and the sky is blue today too. Nice Pwnage, Boro. But you cannot reason with someone who believes in something with this religiousness. Neilsio will believe anything that helps his cause, and deny anything that does not. The opinion of someone with intensive studies in physics is far greater than a nut with a Youtube station.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why would someone want to fly a plane into a building AND blow it up with explosives? It seems like one or the other would accomplish the same task.

[/ QUOTE ]

The conspiracy nuts refuse to believe that flying a fully-fueled jet arliner into a building would be sufficient to cause it to collapse. Supposedly, the jets crashing into the building were to distract us from the *real* cause of the collapse.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I meant to say is that do you get that much more out of the building collapsing rather than having a plane flown into it? If the purpose of the attack was to cause terror, either plan works. I just don't see why anyone would go through the trouble of also rigging explosives if they are already flying the planes.

What added benefit do you get if the towers collapse compared to the case where they are just really messed up by planes?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

That was an interesting chat log. You have a lot of patience, Borodog.

EDIT: It's actually pretty similar to my Pluto/penguin conversation.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

I want to apologize for posting this without Nielsio's permission, which I thoughtlessly did not consider asking for.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

See...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about in my persistence of belief thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Nielso: I'm SURE you've already read the entire report, and probably just missed the section on the collapse mechanics. I understand...It's 1000's of pages of very technical material, and it probably took you a long time to read. By the time you got to the 4th volume, you may have been dozing off.

But here. You can probably start reading around page 300 or 310, and get what you want.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
See...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about in my persistence of belief thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Nielso: I'm SURE you've already read the entire report, and probably just missed the section on the collapse mechanics. I understand...It's 1000's of pages of very technical material, and it probably took you a long time to read. By the time you got to the 4th volume, you may have been dozing off.

But here. You can probably start reading around page 300 or 310, and get what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]


I just read through Chapter 5 and it does not describe a sequential mechanism of the *collapses* (as I call for a number times in this thread).

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
I want to apologize for posting this without Nielsio's permission, which I thoughtlessly did not consider asking for.

[/ QUOTE ]


I won't vote for Ron Paul in the elections, but I will vote for him as mod.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

WTF do you mean when you say "sequential mechanism?" How does the NIST model for the events not qualify?

Oh, and did you read Mr. Plank's paper on blackbody radiation that I linked to? I assume you're satisfied that aluminium can, in fact, be orange if it is of an appropriate temperature.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Neilso this is a serious question I'm not trying to be snarky here. What do you think would change in the world if tomorrow it was proven 100% certain that the American government blew up the twin towers on 9/11? A mood shift? Something ethereal? A revolution? Nothing?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
Neilso this is a serious question I'm not trying to be snarky here. What do you think would change in the world if tomorrow it was proven 100% certain that the American government blew up the twin towers on 9/11? A mood shift? Something ethereal? A revolution? Nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]


The importance of 9/11 in relation to freedom
http://img.youtube.com/vi/lG7MFjsaS0k/1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7MFjsaS0k

Enjoy!

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[16:03] Nielsio: Also, I would be interested in a detailed sequential mechanism
[16:10] Nielsio: NIST has not described any such sequential mechanism
[16:10] Nielsio: It does not go further than ' obal collapse ensued'
[16:13] Nielsio: Energy != sequential mechanism that takes into account all structural elements
[16:17] Borodog: You want the conspiracy more.
[16:18] Nielsio: What do you mean
[16:18] Nielsio: ' obal collapse ensued' is not a sufficient explanation
[16:21] Nielsio: Is ' obal collapse ensued' a sufficient explanation or not?
[16:32] Nielsio: So no sequential mechanism from you?
[16:38] Nielsio: Structural failure (which hasn't been proven btw) != sequential mechanism of disintegration/collapse

[/ QUOTE ]

Nielsio: you keep demanding this "sequential mechanism." What exactly do you mean?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nice tuque.

[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Neilso this is a serious question I'm not trying to be snarky here. What do you think would change in the world if tomorrow it was proven 100% certain that the American government blew up the twin towers on 9/11? A mood shift? Something ethereal? A revolution? Nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]


The importance of 9/11 in relation to freedom
http://img.youtube.com/vi/lG7MFjsaS0k/1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7MFjsaS0k

Enjoy!

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with very little of that, if any (I didn't watch it all). We just disagree immensely when it comes to the analysis of what happened.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Nielso, watch less 24. Speaking of you remind me of the retarded chick that slit her wrists in season 4.

If you're gonna read a pre-written thing that's on your computer screen try talking a little bit faster.

It took you 30 seconds to say, "people........like....9/11.....are.....underestimating...the....ummm....im portance....of......"
by that time i had no idea wtf you were saying.

Anyway too bad Jack Bauer wasn't around to stop the middle eastern terrorists funded by a mock corporation controlled by a CEO paid off by ranking members of the President's administration who were manipulated by the Wizard of Oz who told them to use a contingency plan of thermite explosives to bring down the towers just in case the initial plot was stopped by rogue government agents...or penguins who defy gravity from Antarctica.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
See...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about in my persistence of belief thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Nielso: I'm SURE you've already read the entire report, and probably just missed the section on the collapse mechanics. I understand...It's 1000's of pages of very technical material, and it probably took you a long time to read. By the time you got to the 4th volume, you may have been dozing off.

But here. You can probably start reading around page 300 or 310, and get what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]


I just read through Chapter 5 and it does not describe a sequential mechanism of the *collapses* (as I call for a number times in this thread).

[/ QUOTE ]

OMFG dude.

This report contains detailed time dependent finite element models of both tower collapses. It provides what you have been asking for, and you skim it in a few minutes and dismiss it out of hand? Page 179, pdf page 243, the bloody details are in the Appendix.

Let it go.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Neilso this is a serious question I'm not trying to be snarky here. What do you think would change in the world if tomorrow it was proven 100% certain that the American government blew up the twin towers on 9/11? A mood shift? Something ethereal? A revolution? Nothing?

[/ QUOTE ]


The importance of 9/11 in relation to freedom
http://img.youtube.com/vi/lG7MFjsaS0k/1.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG7MFjsaS0k

Enjoy!

[/ QUOTE ]

Apologies. I can't run youtube videos on this PC could you give a quick explanation? Or a long one if that's what it requires.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

is it just me or is nelsio trying to ask questions that he knows nobody here is knowledgeable enough to answer with 100% certainty.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
is it just me or is nelsio trying to ask questions that he knows nobody here is knowledgeable enough to answer with 100% certainty.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, thats the tactic, see the Dinosaurs on Mars thread. Its extremely unlikely the person you are talking to can answer EVERY question you have to extreme clarity, and even if they do, just ask more questions. Eventually they will run out of knowledge, and you can declare victory.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

And when you ask him a question he can't answer, he just ignores you.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
And when you ask him a question he can't answer, he just ignores you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, thats not really a failing of the denier, its just the beauty of internet message boards.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

To give Nielso a small amount of credit (very small), there actually is no 3-D finite element analysis model of the whole collapse for the simple reason that it's just too damn complex to calculate one. We're talking so many elements and factors and assumptions that even if you could develop one that could produce a result like that seen on 9/11, the conspiracy theorists would immediately poke holes in it because it made so many assumptions about things which we simply cannot know. So they develop small elements that they can calculate and assume they all fit together. Unfortunately, the real world is not like Hollywood, computers do have limitations, things take time to develop, and people have better things to do than solve problems that have already been solved.

Borodog is right about one thing, he wants the conspiracy more than he wants an answer, because the conspiracy fits in with his worldview. Bad science works that way, real science does not.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
Borodog is right about one thing, he wants the conspiracy more than he wants an answer, because the conspiracy fits in with his worldview.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Nielsio has invested too much time and energy convincing himself of the conspiracy. Finally admitting to himself that he might be wrong would be admitting that he has wasted A LOT of time that he could have otherwise spent more constructively...and would also be an admission that he may very well be insane.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
See...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about in my persistence of belief thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Nielso: I'm SURE you've already read the entire report, and probably just missed the section on the collapse mechanics. I understand...It's 1000's of pages of very technical material, and it probably took you a long time to read. By the time you got to the 4th volume, you may have been dozing off.

But here. You can probably start reading around page 300 or 310, and get what you want.

[/ QUOTE ]


I just read through Chapter 5 and it does not describe a sequential mechanism of the *collapses* (as I call for a number times in this thread).

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm sorry...You want us to believe that you read over 400 pages of highly technical material in the 17 minutes between my post and yours? STFU and go away.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

Here's the sequential mechanism. One floor collapses 70 or 80 floors up, The entire weight of the part of the building above that floor falls into the floor below, then the floor below that one, etc. until the whole thing is a pile of rubble on the ground.

Regarding the claim that the fire couldn't have caused the collapse: Remember the gas truck that burned under the bridge in Oakland a few weeds ago, resulting in the collapse of the (at least partly steel) bridge? The people on these silly-ass web sites telling you that the fire couldn't cause the building to collapse (especially after it was damaged by the impact of the plane) are full of crap. No, I didn't read the site your linked to, and I'm going to. However, on similar sites that I have read, it usually takes only a few paragraphs to tell that they have no clue what they are talking about. They will spout a lot of gobbledygook that looks impressive to people lacking in scientific training and critical thinking skills, but which is obviously [censored] to anybody who has them.

The world trade center collapsed because two planes hit the towers and caught fire inside them. Probability 99.9999999%.

Was there a cover up? Most likely. Cover up is the Bush administration's natural mode of operation, even when there is nothing to cover up, or (most commonly) nothing to cover up except their incompetence, which they inevitably fail to cover up, because they're too incompetent to conduct a cover up. See U.S. attorney firings: Only the Bush administration could turn something they had every right to do into a scandal. All they had to say is "We fired them because we didn't like them". Instead, they had Gonzalez claiming he knew nothing about why his own employees were fired, and changed their story 7 or 8 times. Now, do you really think think Larry, Moe and Curly -- Oops! I mean Dubbaya, Dick and Rummy, were smart enough to stage a fake terrorist attack and get away with it? I don't

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Remember the gas truck that burned under the bridge in Oakland a few weeds ago, resulting in the collapse of the (at least partly steel) bridge?

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What a tool you are. That was even lamer than 9/11!
http://www.429truth.com/

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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See...this is the kind of thing I'm talking about in my persistence of belief thread [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

Nielso: I'm SURE you've already read the entire report, and probably just missed the section on the collapse mechanics. I understand...It's 1000's of pages of very technical material, and it probably took you a long time to read. By the time you got to the 4th volume, you may have been dozing off.

But here. You can probably start reading around page 300 or 310, and get what you want.

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I just read through Chapter 5 and it does not describe a sequential mechanism of the *collapses* (as I call for a number times in this thread).

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I'm sorry...You want us to believe that you read over 400 pages of highly technical material in the 17 minutes between my post and yours? STFU and go away.

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I say "I read through chapter 5", then you say that I claim that I read over 400 pages, and then you tell me to STFU and go away. Chapter 5 is 20 pages with lots of white space and diagrams.


Maybe you can read a little more carefully next time before you start yelling.

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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Here's the sequential mechanism. One floor collapses 70 or 80 floors up, The entire weight of the part of the building above that floor falls into the floor below,

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Let me stop you there, as I think this doesn't match with the video footage. The video footage shows that the part above the impact zone collapses in on itself whereby the impact zone 'stays put'. Only after the part above the impact zone has collapsed halfway to 2/3rds does the whole thing start moving down from the impact zone.

http://sumitbhatnagar.multiply.com/video/item/4

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

OMG a month ago no one cared about this and you brought it back? What did you just get a refill on your kook pills?

Re: Electron microscope analysis of steel spheres from WTC site
 

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OMG a month ago no one cared about this and you brought it back? What did you just get a refill on your kook pills?

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I'm guessing he spent the interim spamming every other message board on the internet with his conspiracy nonsense.