Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I dumb or does the method use in the op not account for the fact that you get 2 vpp's when the rake is capped? Shouldn't you double the number of hands where rake is capped, then add that number to all other raked hands that qualify for 1 vpp, then divide by the total number of hands?

If my math is right then I am getting-

NL100 .45 vpp per hand (45K hands)
Nl200 .65 vpp per hand (56K hands)

[/ QUOTE ]

The extra VPP is being factored in. That is why you filter the hands that generate $2 (or $3) in rake and add it to the number of hands that generate $.40 (or $1) in rake. If you confirm this is how you calculated your figures I'll add them to the list.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Refreshing the list. I don't know Omaha - is PLO the same as LO8?

* Sample size of less than 10K hands.

6max NL Holdem
$.10/$.25 -
$.25/$.50 - .253
$.50/$1 - .33, .43
$1/$2 -
$2/$4 -
$3/$6 -
$5/$10 -
$10/$20 -
$25/$50 -

Full Ring NL Holdem
$.10/$.25 -
$.25/$.50 - .3576*
$.50/$1 - .36, .4117*
$1/$2 - .60, .5855*
$2/$4 - .65
$3/$6 - .7336
$5/$10 - .9226
$10/$20 - .8976
$25/$50 -

Limit Holdem
$.10/$.20 -
$.25/$.50 -
$.50/$1 - .170*, .32
$1/$2 - .39*
$2/$4 -
$3/$6 -
$5/$10 -
$10/$20 -
$15/$30 -
$30/$60 -


PLO
Blinds/Table/VPP-hand/Hands
$0.50-$1 Full ring 0.63 11,502
$0.50-$1 6-max 0.65* 2,647

$1-$2 Full ring 0.97 11,492
$1-$2 6-max 0.96 10,326

$2-$4 Full ring 1.00* 8,924
$2-$4 6-max 0.96* 3,547

$3-$6 Full ring 1.29* 2,860
$3-$6 6-max 1.21* 846

$5-$10 Full ring 1.55* 1,025
$5-$10 6-max 1.45* 133

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Hey Kid.... how big of a sample size was that .25/.50 Limit Full result?

How can the .25/.5 be so close to .5/1?

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

PLO = pot limit Omaha (hi)
LO8 = limit Omaha high low

Cmon, HE players, step up your game. Join us.

My numbers for 1/2 LHE:

.362 VPP per hand over 5053 hands.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Also, all my numbers are full ring.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
The extra VPP is being factored in. That is why you filter the hands that generate $2 (or $3) in rake and add it to the number of hands that generate $.40 (or $1) in rake. If you confirm this is how you calculated your figures I'll add them to the list.


[/ QUOTE ]

ok, now I see why. I knew I was dumb.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

10NL 47858 hands 0.047 base vpps per hand
25NL 13892 hands 0.129 base vpps per hand

Full ring stats

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Fixed limit 5-10. 145432 hands -1.232-Start dateJanuary 2nd

Foxed limit 10-20.48393 hands - 1.56 - Start day danuary 2nd

Full ring, and I never play on the table once it gets below 8 handed.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

PLO

$10-$20 Full ring 1.78 VPPs/hand (only 543 hands)

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

9500 hands at Fixed Limit $0.50/$1 FR came to .2003
11370 hands at Fixed Limit $1/$2 FR came to .3719

Anyone got the numbers for $2/$4 and $3/$6?

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

2/4 limit 6-max: .47vpp/hand; 63k hands

3/6 limit 6-max: .71vpp/hand; 30k hands

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Nice, thanks! Glad the limit guys are showing up to contribute.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Updating the list. Still a lot of gaps to fill. Anyone?



6max NL Holdem
$.10/$.25 -
$.25/$.50 - .253
$.50/$1 - .33, .43
$1/$2 -
$2/$4 -
$3/$6 -
$5/$10 -
$10/$20 -
$25/$50 -

Full Ring NL Holdem
$.05/$.10 - .047
$.10/$.25 - .129
$.25/$.50 - .3576*
$.50/$1.0 - .36, .4117*
$1/$2 - .60, .56
$2/$4 - .65, .689
$3/$6 - .7336
$5/$10 - .9226
$10/$20 - .8976
$25/$50 -


6max Limit Holdem
$.10/$.20 -
$.25/$.50 -
$.50/$1 -
$1/$2 -
$2/$4 - .47
$3/$6 - .71
$5/$10 -
$10/$20 -
$15/$30 -
$30/$60 -

Full Ring Limit Holdem
$.10/$.20 -
$.25/$.50 -
$.50/$1 - .170*, .32, .2003*
$1/$2 - .39*, .362*, .3719
$2/$4 -
$3/$6 -
$5/$10 - 1.232
$10/$20 - 1.56
$15/$30 -
$30/$60 -



PLO blinds Table VPP/hand Hands
$0.50-$1 Full ring 0.63 11,502
$0.50-$1 6-max 0.65* 2,647

$1-$2 Full ring 0.97 11,492
$1-$2 6-max 0.96 10,326

$2-$4 Full ring 1.00* 8,924
$2-$4 6-max 0.96* 3,547

$3-$6 Full ring 1.29* 2,860
$3-$6 6-max 1.21* 846

$5-$10 Full ring 1.55* 1,025
$5-$10 6-max 1.45* 133



* Sample size of less than 10K hands. If I get two or more samples above 10K I'm dropping the smaller numbers.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

1/2 limit holdem seems to be down a bit since pre-legislation.

But is this also a function of the double-points promo that led to some tighter games, particularly on that limit?

Anyone who only played during the double-points promo and reported their stats in this thread are probably more givng an indication of how the promo itself impacted the games instead of how post-legislation impacted them.

You need a post-legislation sample that did NOT come during the promo imo.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
anyone have any stats for 1/2 limit full? Is is safe to assume that the numbers would be close to double that of .5/1?

[/ QUOTE ]


kind of close-ish but this isn't the best of assumptions imo because it's not a direct relationship.

It comes when the pot reaches $8 at these stakes.

So that's an 8BB pot at .5/1 compared with a 4BB pot at 1/2.

1/2 will be a little tighter/tougher than .5/1 I assume, but probably not THAT significantly.
So the question becomes whether you get twice as many 4BB pots as you do 8BB pots at semi-similar stakes.

You got over .3 VPP per hand at .5/1.
There's no way you're going to get .6 VPP at 1/2.
More like .4 (or a little less from some of the data here)

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Ive been playing FR 100NL a lot over the last few days. Over the past week, 23951 hands with an average rate of 0.404.

Dennisa

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
1/2 limit holdem seems to be down a bit since pre-legislation.

But is this also a function of the double-points promo that led to some tighter games, particularly on that limit?

[/ QUOTE ]

No question about it. I played 1/2 and 2/4 full ring limit during the promo and the VPP/hand were around 0.05 lower than before the promo.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone who only played during the double-points promo and reported their stats in this thread are probably more givng an indication of how the promo itself impacted the games instead of how post-legislation impacted them.

You need a post-legislation sample that did NOT come during the promo imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Comparing the same time frames would probably be better, like Jan 1 to May 1 for both '06 and '07.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

$.50/1.00 full ring limit 4,000 hands : .19 a hand.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

200NL 6max: .545 VPP/hand (over 180k hands this year)

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
200NL 6max: .545 VPP/hand (over 180k hands this week)

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Someone at the PLO forum linked this thread.

I posted these numbers from my database once:

From my recent database, hands/VPP at various levels at PokerStars for PLO are:

Big Blind = 0.02, hands/VPP = 210 *
Big Blind = 0.05, hands/VPP = 17 *
Big Blind = 0.10, hands/VPP = 7.8
Big Blind = 0.25, hands/VPP = 3.8
Big Blind = 0.50, hands/VPP = 2.3
Big Blind = 1.00, hands/VPP = 1.4
Big Blind = 2.00, hands/VPP = 0.86
Big Blind = 4.00, hands/VPP = 0.86 *
Big Blind = 6.00, hands/VPP = 0.68 *
Big Blind = 10.0, hands/VPP = 0.58 **

* indicates: less than 1000 hands at this level
** indicates: less than 100 hands at this level

These aren't sorted for 6-max vs. full ring (the higher levels are all full ring, and so are most of the lower ones).

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

.25nl 6max: .09 vpps (63,000 hands)

.50nl 6max: .19 vpps (98,000 hands)

.5/1 limit 6max: .15 vpps (11,000 hands)

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

.50/1.00 Full Ring NL: .426 VPP/hand, 68000 hands
.50/1.00 6max NL: .431 VPP/hand, 15000 hands
1/2 Full Ring NL: .618 VPP/hand, 27000 hands

.50/1.00 PLO full ring: .634 VPP/hand, 20000 hands
1/2 PLO full ring: .949 VPP/hand, 20000 hands

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

These don't include the 2x bonus for super nove these are just base VPPs right?

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

My buddy says over 25k hands of 200nl FR he gets .518 VPP per hand.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

Just base points.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

.71VPP/hand at 5/10NL 6max

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
My buddy says over 25k hands of 200nl FR he gets .518 VPP per hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


difference between .518 and .618 on that game can depend on game-selection including time of day you are playing as well as your own aggressiveness.

Still though, this does seem like a pretty significant difference even when trying to account for sample-size.

Is buddy just looking at PT? Is he remembering that he gets double-points for max-rake hands?

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My buddy says over 25k hands of 200nl FR he gets .518 VPP per hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


difference between .518 and .618 on that game can depend on game-selection including time of day you are playing as well as your own aggressiveness.

Still though, this does seem like a pretty significant difference even when trying to account for sample-size.

Is buddy just looking at PT? Is he remembering that he gets double-points for max-rake hands?

[/ QUOTE ]

I gave him the directions and he gave me the numbers back (he is not 2+2)

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

I usually move around to better games in holdem if the table gets nitty or if I'm totally card dead in a seat, PLO has fewer games going so I just stick it out.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

NL25 6max = .102 over 23.5k hands

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

[ QUOTE ]
or if I'm totally card dead in a seat

[/ QUOTE ]


Awesome.
You know you can just switch all the seat locations around at the table via their options.
Maybe doing something like that will help you get to the 'hot-seat' where all the good cards are falling.

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

100nl 6max 21k hands - .45 vpp/hand

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

200nl 6max 14k hands - 0.60 vpp/hand

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

NL100 Full Ring over about 42K hands this month = .414 vpp per hand

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

50NL 6max 14k hands - .232 vpp/hand

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

anyone have numbers on the new HUcash tables?

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

1/2 6m NL

69730 total games
28851 with 0.40
10812 with 2.00

0.569 vpp/hand

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

.5/1 PLO (6 max) 0.653vpp/hand
10k hands

Re: Poker Stars: VPP per hand - post-legislation edition
 

NL100 FR 0.42 vpp/hand (15k hands)