Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Iris is a sweetheart compared to some others at the Commerce. How about the Arab guy that calls the (female) dealers bitches and whores, and when the dealer or another player complains the floor comes over, puts his hand on the abusers shoulder, gives him a massage, and tells everyone what a nice guy he is and how he didn't mean it.

This is one reason why it's illegal to tip a casino employee in England. That guy who works the floor on the evening shift, Jack I think his name is, is one of the biggest phonies on the planet. This guy makes $50 to a $100 in tokes before he ever begins his shift.

"How's my 'friend' tonight? Oh, there is another one of my 'friends.' How are you doing my 'friend?'

Meanwhile all of his "friends" are slipping him a ten dollar chip. This was enough to make me gag.

So, when the big tipping abuser is caught red-handed, Jack just walks over, rubs his shoulders and says everything will be OK.

What a joke.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]


Andy,

I've long believed that LA cardrooms under-perform* despite the fact they have more B&M games than anywhere else in the world. IMO a big part of this is the amount of awful behavior that is allowed just because a particular customer or group of customers puts in a lot of hours. Iris of course is a classic example. Her despicableness is more than simply bending/marking cards; it's about the other things (e.g racist abusive behavior) you mention in this tread and you and others have mentioned in past threads. It makes a great story on 2+2 but it's really ugly to watch in person.

If the Commerce seriously barred Iris (and perhaps a dozen more of her ilk) and kept at it when new cretins emerge does anyone agree that in the long run far more new customers (the types who realize a card room isn't church but expect at least a small degree of civility) would emerge to replace her?

It stands to reason that in a generally wealthy metro area where about twelve million people live within an hours drive of a card club there just have to be many that like (or would like) poker but stay away because they can't stand being around such unpleasantness. And Iris and her ilk are certainly unpleasant (at least at the tables; I've heard she can be nice on the phone to her family or friends).

~ Rick


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely. There are many well-off potential poker players, especially women, who would never voluntarily spend time in that type of environment.

It is especially important to remember that an unhappy customer is likely to warn 10 times the number of potential players about his or her bad experience than a happy customer is likely to recommend the room to his acquaintances. Even, maybe especially, regulars will tell their acquaintances about the abhorrent behavior.

I'm still amazed that dealers haven't been able to improve their work conditions, especially since it would likely mean more business for them.

If only one major club would significantly change for the better, I believe over the long run it would see a big increase in business.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think she plays as poorly as ever, but she's universally regarded, and justly so, as the most horrible person who plays mid-limits at Commerce. And that's saying something.

I agree with Chris. Maybe I'd feel differently if I were playing for a living; I doubt it. I don't care if she were worth two big bets an hour to me all by herself. I hope to never see her again.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you played the 100/200 (or sometimes 2/4 by the grace of god) with Julian (muscle bound skull cap guy) you might put him ahead of Iris, it's definitely close.

[ QUOTE ]
The funniest old white lady at the commerce is that Russian lady. She will play for 3 days straight and loose $15,000. Her dealer abuse is so out line and over the top you cant take it seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

This lady is much better to have at the table because she is slightly less loud than Iris, a worse player, and usually plays 100/200. Funny random story about her, a few weeks ago I'm in one of the crappiest 100/200 games ever at Commerce, like 8 good players and this lady. She quietly tells Pierce the game is tough and she doesn't like it and the nice guy that he is, he tells her "your style will do really well with all these tight guys though, they will try to run you over" and she smiles and nods and doesn't quit. Thanks Pierce!

Red Stine,

Jack is like that with everyone, I've never given him a dime and he greets me that way when he sees me. That said if you ever need a correct ruling get ANYONE but Jack, he doesn't know any of the rules.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
That said if you ever need a correct ruling get ANYONE but Jack, he doesn't know any of the rules. - DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a long time 2+2 poster who told me he thinks Jack has the judgement of King Solomon (after a discussion that included much of what was said in this thread).

From the "King Solomon wiki"

"Wisdom of Solomon

One of the qualities most ascribed to Solomon is his wisdom. One account, that of Solomon suggesting to divide a baby in two to determine its real mother, is from the Old Testament of the Bible in the book of Kings. In this often-quoted passage, two prostitutes came before Solomon to resolve a quarrel about which of them was the true mother of a baby. (The other's baby died in the night and each claims the surviving child as hers.) When Solomon suggests dividing the living child in two with a sword, the true mother is revealed to him because she is willing to give up her child to the lying woman rather than have the child killed. Solomon then declares the woman who shows the compassion is the true mother and hands the child to her.

Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other." - 1 Kings 3 (New International Version)

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Bad WIKI.... they just include a quote at the end, which causes your misconception... Here's the entire text which they draw their quote from...

[ QUOTE ]
16 Now two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. 17 One of them said, "My lord, this woman and I live in the same house. I had a baby while she was there with me. 18 The third day after my child was born, this woman also had a baby. We were alone; there was no one in the house but the two of us.

19 "During the night this woman's son died because she lay on him. 20 So she got up in the middle of the night and took my son from my side while I your servant was asleep. She put him by her breast and put her dead son by my breast. 21 The next morning, I got up to nurse my son—and he was dead! But when I looked at him closely in the morning light, I saw that it wasn't the son I had borne."

22 The other woman said, "No! The living one is my son; the dead one is yours."
But the first one insisted, "No! The dead one is yours; the living one is mine." And so they argued before the king.

23 The king said, "This one says, 'My son is alive and your son is dead,' while that one says, 'No! Your son is dead and mine is alive.' "

24 Then the king said, "Bring me a sword." So they brought a sword for the king. 25 He then gave an order: "Cut the living child in two and give half to one and half to the other."

26 The woman whose son was alive was filled with compassion for her son and said to the king, "Please, my lord, give her the living baby! Don't kill him!"
But the other said, "Neither I nor you shall have him. Cut him in two!"

27 Then the king gave his ruling: "Give the living baby to the first woman. Do not kill him; she is his mother."

28 When all Israel heard the verdict the king had given, they held the king in awe, because they saw that he had wisdom from God to administer justice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]

Red Stine,

Jack is like that with everyone, I've never given him a dime and he greets me that way when he sees me. That said if you ever need a correct ruling get ANYONE but Jack, he doesn't know any of the rules.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with this. Jack was the floorman...of some of the low limit games for a long time. I haven't played $4-8 or $6-12 for a long long time at Commerce...probably over 5 years now. I moved up to the $20-40 only around November. I hadn't seen Jack in years and he still recognized me and was really friendly..."how are you my friend...blahblahblah". I've never once tipped him. He is like that every time I'm there. I can't comment on how he runs the games as I don't play $40-80 yet, but thats definitely his overall personality.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Jack's a legend. One night a friend and I are on line at the cage; Jack is with us, schmoozing. A guy comes from around the corner, from the Asian games section, and cuts in front of us. Jack says to him, "There's a line." The guy gives jack $10. Jack says, "Right this way, sir."

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

"if you ever need a correct ruling get ANYONE but Jack, he doesn't know any of the rules."

Rick might know the rules a bit, but nobody else at Commerce has a clue.

One day I'm shooting the bull with Marcel while I'm waiting for a seat. A big ruckus breaks out at a stud table, and they scream for a floorman. Marcel doesn't move. They now call for him by name. Says Marcel to me, "This ought to be good. Why don't you go over, you know more about the rules than I do."

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Yeah, when I think of Jack the first person that comes to mind is King Solomon.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Seems to me that I'm seeing more and more dealers react to abuse or impoliteness with surliness or impoliteness of their own.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?

I can say for certain that this behavior would not be tolerated in other card rooms in other parts of the country. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still amazed that dealers haven't been able to improve their work conditions, especially since it would likely mean more business for them.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hahaha, like management really gives two shakes for the dealers or their concerns.

[ QUOTE ]
Seems to me that I'm seeing more and more dealers react to abuse or impoliteness with surliness or impoliteness of their own.

[/ QUOTE ]
If LA is anything like Bay Area, I can't blame them. Dealers have no power and abusive customers know it. I feel quite strongly that if dealers were permitted to deal problem children out of hands and get the backing of the floor, a lot of this would settle down. I've tried arguing my case, but it falls on deaf ears.

Management wants them around. It's the path of least resistance, and the idiots feed the games. We're run by regulars, not tourists. I'm sure it'd take a while for word to get out that a place has cleaned up, so forseeable-term is +EV for the casino to let them stay.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
If the Commerce seriously barred Iris (and perhaps a dozen more of her ilk) and kept at it when new cretins emerge does anyone agree that in the long run far more new customers (the types who realize a card room isn't church but expect at least a small degree of civility) would emerge to replace her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think it is action, rather than harmony, that will attract the most players. I believe that obnoxious behaviour stimulates action, and that when you have two such cretins at a table, in conflict, competing for attention, then you have the best action of all.

jmo

P.S. Do any of you LA players remember "America's Guest?"

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?

I can say for certain that this behavior would not be tolerated in other card rooms in other parts of the country. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at CAZ. Dealer abuse is not tolerated. A quick example: The other day a player says something pretty bad to a dealer. The dealer doesn't bother calling a floor person over and says to the player: 'Do you want to apologize right now or do you want to go home?' Player apologizes. End of problem.

My guess is that the LA cardrooms are afraid of losing customers to the many other area cardrooms. I am used to abusive people from the business I was in for many years (low-income housing in the Bronx) plus playing poker for over 10 years so it doesn't bother me as much as it does 'regular' people. When I visit SoCal poker rooms it's sort of like going to the zoo for me. I get to see all the interesting animals in their natural habitat.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I once had someone slice a card in two with a rubberband at 30/60.

[/ QUOTE ]

um... please explain? that must have been some rubber band!

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

I just spent five days at the Commerce. I have played there many times over the last 20 years but not for the last year. I cannot imagine playing there on a regular basis. The lack of basic civility permeates every game I played in (40-80, 60-120 & 100-200) and everyone has developed an attitude either as a personna or a defense mechanism. Every sterotype is present, bad behavior is trumpted by worse behavior. Even though the games are good, after five days I couldnt wait to leave.

Those of you who play at the commerce daily must be immune to how the game appears to a part time social player. Compared to the social atmosphere of the 60-120 at the CAZ the Commerce is a verbal war zone.

wally

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bad WIKI.... they just include a quote at the end, which causes your misconception...

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the clarification. That last paragraph didn't look right and in my original post I asked whether it was correct. Then I edited out the question.

Anyway my friend was referring to Jack having the judgement of King Solomon in the positive sense. IMO his great judgement mostly centers around maximizing his tips.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just spent five days at the Commerce. I have played there many times over the last 20 years but not for the last year. I cannot imagine playing there on a regular basis. The lack of basic civility permeates every game I played in (40-80, 60-120 & 100-200) and everyone has developed an attitude either as a personna or a defense mechanism. Every sterotype is present, bad behavior is trumpted by worse behavior. Even though the games are good, after five days I couldnt wait to leave.

Those of you who play at the commerce daily must be immune to how the game appears to a part time social player. Compared to the social atmosphere of the 60-120 at the CAZ the Commerce is a verbal war zone. - wally

[/ QUOTE ]

Wally,

There may be thousands of recreational poker players within a thirty minute drive of the Commerce with the money and desire to play these limits who feel exactly as you do. The lost business at the Commerce and other clubs is largely masked by the fact they are in a closed market so they more or less fill up on nights and weekends anyway.

If there was free and open competition I believe the LA card club that demanded reasonably civilized behavior would emerge as number one with the best action.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If the Commerce seriously barred Iris (and perhaps a dozen more of her ilk) and kept at it when new cretins emerge does anyone agree that in the long run far more new customers (the types who realize a card room isn't church but expect at least a small degree of civility) would emerge to replace her?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I think it is action, rather than harmony, that will attract the most players. I believe that obnoxious behaviour stimulates action, and that when you have two such cretins at a table, in conflict, competing for attention, then you have the best action of all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree action attracts players and that to an extent obnoxious behavior (often provided by an action player) can seemingly stimulate action. By "seemingly" I believe that the LA players experience is to often associate annoying behavior with an action game. But you can have plenty of action and a modicum of civility if card club management demands and enforces the modicum of civility.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just spent five days at the Commerce. I have played there many times over the last 20 years but not for the last year. I cannot imagine playing there on a regular basis. The lack of basic civility permeates every game I played in (40-80, 60-120 & 100-200) and everyone has developed an attitude either as a personna or a defense mechanism. Every sterotype is present, bad behavior is trumpted by worse behavior. Even though the games are good, after five days I couldnt wait to leave.

Those of you who play at the commerce daily must be immune to how the game appears to a part time social player. Compared to the social atmosphere of the 60-120 at the CAZ the Commerce is a verbal war zone. - wally

[/ QUOTE ]

Wally,

There may be thousands of recreational poker players within a thirty minute drive of the Commerce with the money and desire to play these limits who feel exactly as you do. The lost business at the Commerce and other clubs is largely masked by the fact they are in a closed market so they more or less fill up on nights and weekends anyway.

If there was free and open competition I believe the LA card club that demanded reasonably civilized behavior would emerge as number one with the best action.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

What constraints are there on the market? I take it what you're saying is not just anyone could plop down a room with 300 tables in it next week if they wanted to.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Management wants them around. It's the path of least resistance, and the idiots feed the games. We're run by regulars, not tourists. I'm sure it'd take a while for word to get out that a place has cleaned up, so forseeable-term is +EV for the casino to let them stay.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the short term getting rid of the abusers would be -EV (both for business and action). But over time the club would replace the abusers with far more reasonably behaved people and end up far ahead. If fact eventually you could get back most of the abusers as long as they understood their prior behavior would no longer be tolerated.

Management of course tends to think short term unless they are very secure in their jobs. Even if they are secure they tend to have a mental accounting of how many hours a customer like Iris plays but have no idea how many gentleman "Wally types" (see his post elsewhere in this thread) are driven away by the ugliness of the Iris like behavior.

It's really sad and pathetic.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Rick -

I think that you are right on with yur analysis. The notion that most people enjoy the aggressive behavior at the Commerce is wrong. Many people enjoy the good action. They equate good action with the bad behavior of some of the bad players and think we must tolerate the behavior to get the action. I think that is wrong. The first place to start is to enforce rules against dealer/staff abuse. They dont deserve such a hostile work enviornment. If dealer abuse was stopped then the player to player abuse would be more noticeable. Most of the worst abusers can and would change their behavior if there were quick and severe consequences meted out. Just like smoking (another addiction) gambolers will change if they have to in order to be able to continue with their addiction.

Wally

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
What constraints are there on the market? I take it what you're saying is not just anyone could plop down a room with 300 tables in it next week if they wanted to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so. A new club hasn't opened in years (The Hustler took over the old licence of The Eldorado).

LA is uniquely advantages for existing card clubs. There are millions of people living within a short drive of essentially five major card clubs and a few smaller ones with no other real legal gambling except horse racing, some bingo, and the lottery.

You can screw up an awful lot and still fill your club at peak hours.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?

I can say for certain that this behavior would not be tolerated in other card rooms in other parts of the country. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I play at CAZ. Dealer abuse is not tolerated. A quick example: The other day a player says something pretty bad to a dealer. The dealer doesn't bother calling a floor person over and says to the player: 'Do you want to apologize right now or do you want to go home?' Player apologizes. End of problem.

My guess is that the LA cardrooms are afraid of losing customers to the many other area cardrooms. I am used to abusive people from the business I was in for many years (low-income housing in the Bronx) plus playing poker for over 10 years so it doesn't bother me as much as it does 'regular' people. When I visit SoCal poker rooms it's sort of like going to the zoo for me. I get to see all the interesting animals in their natural habitat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it ain't tolerated in the rooms I frequent either. I got my hand slapped recently by the female dealer (all 4'11 & 90 lbs of her) because me & some of the guys at my end of the table were BSing & I told them a dirty joke with the word p*ssy in it & she overheard it of course.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

2010.

Even then, the existing clubs will lobby hard to keep the field closed to newcomers.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I play at CAZ. Dealer abuse is not tolerated. A quick example: The other day a player says something pretty bad to a dealer. The dealer doesn't bother calling a floor person over and says to the player: 'Do you want to apologize right now or do you want to go home?' Player apologizes. End of problem.

My guess is that the LA cardrooms are afraid of losing customers to the many other area cardrooms. I am used to abusive people from the business I was in for many years (low-income housing in the Bronx) plus playing poker for over 10 years so it doesn't bother me as much as it does 'regular' people. When I visit SoCal poker rooms it's sort of like going to the zoo for me. I get to see all the interesting animals in their natural habitat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had that one visit to CAZ and found it very pleasant. Here's my quick story:

In the "$5-$150 sort of NL game" I give a guy a bad beat based on the cards he actually had (but my play was reasonable based on my estimate of his range). Anyway the guy keeps on me for several hands with "How can you make that bet/call/raise?" and so on. I reply with my usual silence.

Now the dealer must have thought my feelings were hurt so she comes out and tells the guy "We are mostly here to have fun; please don't criticize the gentleman." (while motioning in my direction; I guess she doesn't know the real me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

I almost passed out from shock.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
State law has not even allowed referendums on new card clubs for the past several years and won't until (I think) 2015 or so.

[/ QUOTE ]

2010.

Even then, the existing clubs will lobby hard to keep the field closed to newcomers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I lived in Cypress when that city had a referendum around 1992 to put in a large club at Los Alamitos Race track (which is actually in Cypress).

The stack of mail pro and con eventually reached about 2 feet high. Most of the con flyers were funded through the back door by the card clubs.

The measure went down by about a 2 to 1 margin. Cypress did the right thing though; they now have a Costco in that location.

~ Rick

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t, etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?


[/ QUOTE ]

All of the above. I can't tell you how odd a reaction I got the last time a player at $20-40 said to a Commerce floorman "You should treat your customers better....I lose 800 f---ing dollars here today!" and I burst into a full on out loud belly laugh.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
But you can have plenty of action and a modicum of civility if card club management demands and enforces the modicum of civility.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Plus, management can still defend the dealers: Sticking up for them in the face of offensive players actually helps to keep the juices flowing--it's another form of confrontation that keeps the offending player on center stage (which is what they really love).

A couple of notes:

There's nothing that prevents players at the table from chastising a player who is abusing a dealer (I could start a thread on this. It can be loads of fun and a good way to enhance tilt); and,

I was playing at the Bike last Jan. and didn't think it was too bad.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't tell you how odd a reaction I got the last time a player at $20-40 said to a Commerce floorman "You should treat your customers better....I lose 800 f---ing dollars here today!" and I burst into a full on out loud belly laugh.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's a surprisingly common sentiment among losers.

"NO I will not be quiet," spoken to the floor, "I just lost TWO RACKS here [two racks of $1's, incidentally [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]] and that gives me the right to say anything I please to anybody I please. And buddy, didn't I tell you at least 10 minutes ago to get me a damned waitress? Where is she? I want my TWO HUNDRED DOLLAR drink!"

He didn't get his drink. But he wasn't playing at Commerce or I'm sure he would have.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
"This ought to be good. Why don't you go over, you know more about the rules than I do."

[/ QUOTE ]

AHLSGDLKJADF
JL;NDGH;LKJA

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS IS THE BEST STORY I'VE EVER HEARD.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
Can I ask a silly question?

I've never been to the Commerce, so I have no idea (other than what you all say) what the players/action are like. My question is why does management/dealers put up with the arseholes like this lady Iris who mark the cards, cuss the dealer, throw sh*t , etc. Can these people not act their age? Are they drunk or doing drugs or something?

I can say for certain that this behavior would not be tolerated in other card rooms in other parts of the country. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
Foxwoods last Friday 10/20 LHE. Emotional regular has taken his third or fourth awful beat and is down to his last $8 or so. He tells the dealer he sucks, picks up his chips, hurls them just over the dealers shoulder/head, and storms out of the room. The chips slam against the wall (ironically right where the 13 Foxwoods' player rules are posted) and scatter. There is a quiet at the table and a few tables in the vicinity that lasts until the floor picks up the chips, puts them next to the dealer, and says "looks like he air mailed you your tip".

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

When people are losing money, they can become jerks. Especially in a game like poker where there's a luck factor.

I play at Commerce fairly often--although I consider myself a social player--and I've found a group of people to socialize and joke with and they're nice, congenial people who are good company. I avoid and ignore the jerks.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

I'm heartened by stories of CAZ. I've read a variety of good/bad about this place, but that the dealers have power over their tables is a great thing.

To the person suggesting harassing the abuser... I'm curious the feelings of others, but I recommend against railing on them for being mean to a dealer. This rarely helps and only strengthens the person's resolve. At least in my experience. But I appreciate the sentiment. I think a nice subtle thing you could do is throw the dealer a chip, say it's for the effort or something. I'm sure a lot of people don't like it but are afraid to speak up. A small gesture will notify people that there's at least one other person annoyed by it all, which could have a profound impact on the tone of the entire table, not to mention the attitude of the dealer.

I don't know how it is in LA, but with my experience in the Bay Area, the rooms are all their own little worlds, and those running them have had decades to evolve independent of each other. This results in rooms with wildly inconsistent rules and floorpeople who know thier own little mutated world of rules and procedures, with little knowledge of or interest in how other rooms do things.

For a while I got bent out of shape about the abusers and my lack of power to do anything about it, but I've finally been broken, and I just tolerate the a-hole behavior with everybody else and try to ignore it best I can. I tell ya, simply allowing dealers to deal someone out of a hand and know they'll get backed by the floor would solve a boatload of problems. Addicts need their fix, and when confronted with consequences, they'll shape up or be removed. These people feed on people bending to them. We do nobody any good by enabling.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm heartened by stories of CAZ. I've read a variety of good/bad about this place, but that the dealers have power over their tables is a great thing.

To the person suggesting harassing the abuser... I'm curious the feelings of others, but I recommend against railing on them for being mean to a dealer. This rarely helps and only strengthens the person's resolve. At least in my experience. But I appreciate the sentiment. I think a nice subtle thing you could do is throw the dealer a chip, say it's for the effort or something. I'm sure a lot of people don't like it but are afraid to speak up. A small gesture will notify people that there's at least one other person annoyed by it all, which could have a profound impact on the tone of the entire table, not to mention the attitude of the dealer.

I don't know how it is in LA, but with my experience in the Bay Area, the rooms are all their own little worlds, and those running them have had decades to evolve independent of each other. This results in rooms with wildly inconsistent rules and floorpeople who know thier own little mutated world of rules and procedures, with little knowledge of or interest in how other rooms do things.

For a while I got bent out of shape about the abusers and my lack of power to do anything about it, but I've finally been broken, and I just tolerate the a-hole behavior with everybody else and try to ignore it best I can. I tell ya, simply allowing dealers to deal someone out of a hand and know they'll get backed by the floor would solve a boatload of problems. Addicts need their fix, and when confronted with consequences, they'll shape up or be removed. These people feed on people bending to them. We do nobody any good by enabling.

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The room where I play the most, I know quite a few of the dealers & other regulars pretty well, so it's not uncommon for one of us to stick up for a dealer (the women dealers especially) if they are getting abused by a drunk, losing, a$$hole. I'm a pretty nice, easy going person at the table but I won't hesitate to tell somebody to STFU if they get outta line.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

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"This ought to be good. Why don't you go over, you know more about the rules than I do."

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AHLSGDLKJADF
JL;NDGH;LKJA

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS IS THE BEST STORY I'VE EVER HEARD.

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This isn't surprising at all if you knew Marcel. I got a decent ruling in a white chip game once from Luis but it took awhile. I'm really drawing a blank trying to think of a floorman who is reliable if you need a ruling. Luckily the bigger games tend to police themselves, if you are on the right side of the regulars.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

I am a bit confused - abusive players at the Commerce? But it says right on their chips "LA's Friendliest Casino"!

Seriously, that certainly is not the only place with this kind of problem. I have never played higher than 4/8 at the Commerce and have only been there a few times, but they honestly were the friendliest games I have played in LA (except for the [censored] in the Omaha game).

The last time I played the 6/12 at Hollywood Park someone got mad and crumpled his cards after losing with top pair crappy kicker, with something like Q6o. I complained to the player and he said something like "they can afford the new deck". I said "that's not the point, I came to play poker not wait for new decks". At that point I resisted the urge to add "if you didn't play crap hands you wouldn't have the problem to beging with!" and let the matter drop.

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

Andy Fox. You have any gossip on what ever happened to
Nilly Premrajh?

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

??

Re: Iris Caught Marking the Cards at Commerce
 

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I don't know how it is in LA, but with my experience in the Bay Area, the rooms are all their own little worlds, and those running them have had decades to evolve independent of each other. This results in rooms with wildly inconsistent rules and floorpeople who know thier own little mutated world of rules and procedures, with little knowledge of or interest in how other rooms do things.

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I can honestly say that Bay101 has been doing a better job of keeping the abuse to a minimum. I have seen 5 players 86'd, one was perma-banned (stealing, so she prolly doesn't count), for various levels of abuse or what-not in the last 2 months or so.