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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] This may or may not be true. But what is undeniable is that boxing can learn a lot from some of the drivers of UFC's success. It won't, but it could. UFC is doing a lot of things right. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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UFC is doing a lot of things right. [/ QUOTE ] From a marketing stand point, I agree. Dana White could probably help turn around boxing as well. I said this a few weeks ago, but in my opinion a good boxing match is better than a good UFC match and I still stand by that. For those who disagree, seriously, go watch some classic boxing on ESPN Classic. The stuff is amazing! Epic battles lasting 10+_ rounds. Punches being thrown left and right, knockdowns, the crazy crowd. Huge behemoths giving everything they have. Just unreal. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] Everybody has a right to their opinion, but the numbers don't lie. UFC's growth shows no signs of slowing. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
can you post these numbers?
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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can you post these numbers? [/ QUOTE ] No. But that doesn't mean I haven't seen them. I can go look around the web and find some stuff I'm sure. It's everywhere. I don't know how many times I have read or watched some news story re: UFC's growth over the last couple of years. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
I just want to read it out of interest, thats all.
What is interesting is in that article someone linked, UFC appears to have taken a vast majority of WWE fans, specifically for PPV events. Boxing isn't as big as UFC, but its PPV popularity is still incredibly strong. Does anyone have any figures for last nights fight? The estimated draw was 1.4mil. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
honestly i think itd be more interesting to see mayweather fight someone like buakaw under k-1 rules.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] The ground game is just like the run away defensive game in boxing. just like people thought the PBF fight was boring when there was a lot of strategy involved. At least the ground game in UFC has punches and submissions which can end a fight. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] The ground game is getting a bit boring lately because there's been too many guys not staying active on the ground anymore. Even standup, there seems to be a lot more cautious fighters these days. I'm betting the UFC is going to start tinkering with the rules/enforcement a bit to push the action more (stand guys up quicker, deduct points for inaction, etc). I think the ground game is even more exciting than the standup game when done right. Battles between submission fighters can be exhibitions of amazing technical skills. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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The ground game is getting a bit boring lately because there's been too many guys not staying active on the ground anymore. Even standup, there seems to be a lot more cautious fighters these days. I'm betting the UFC is going to start tinkering with the rules/enforcement a bit to push the action more (stand guys up quicker, deduct points for inaction, etc). I think the ground game is even more exciting than the standup game when done right. Battles between submission fighters can be exhibitions of amazing technical skills. [/ QUOTE ] With the acquisition of Pride they might adopt some of the rules there. Yellow cards for stalling and maybe add knees and kicks to a downed opponent. I'm with you on the ground game. I find it much more exciting than standup, especially when two very good BJJ guys go at it. If I wanted to watch two guys stand up and not even try for a takedown I'd watch boxing. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
This might be tough to pull off (no pun intended) w/ the different gloves used, but what do you think about this format?:
16, alternating, one-minute rounds one round of boxing rules then a round of MMA rules the rounds -imo- would have to be short, because given enough time (and it wouldn't take much) the pro at their respective discipline would destroy the other (amateurish) guy. I think this would even be comical, to see a feared boxer scrambling for his life on the mat. Then the next round, a top MMA guy covering his face as he gets picked apart in the corner. Plus, I think the guys would get pretty pissed off/ frustrated. They'd have to work hard to finish in under a minute. Overall, I think the boxers would take the worst of it. It seems easier to choke someone on the ground than to knock somebody out on your feet. But, I do think in this setting a Mayweather could come out on top. Really any boxer would have a fighting chance this way. But, like I said, changing the gloves every round makes it highly improbable. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] UFC is doing a lot of things right. [/ QUOTE ] From a marketing stand point, I agree. Dana White could probably help turn around boxing as well. I said this a few weeks ago, but in my opinion a good boxing match is better than a good UFC match and I still stand by that. For those who disagree, seriously, go watch some classic boxing on ESPN Classic. The stuff is amazing! Epic battles lasting 10+_ rounds. Punches being thrown left and right, knockdowns, the crazy crowd. Huge behemoths giving everything they have. Just unreal. [/ QUOTE ] OK, go watch Fedor/Cro Cop, Fedor/Nog 1 & 2, Gomi/Diaz, Cro Cop/Silva, Griffin/Bonnar, Frye/Takayama, etc. etc. Good MMA fights can be just as good as good boxing fights and vice versa. I don't think either is definitively more entertaining than the other. I will say that, personally, I'm more interested in a boring MMA match between two no names than its boxing counterpart. But this is only because I'm more interested in MMA in general and have a better understanding of it. I'm sure if I became more interested in boxing, I would enjoy a throwaway preliminary fight just the same. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] Everybody has a right to their opinion, but the numbers don't lie. UFC's growth shows no signs of slowing. [/ QUOTE ] Logically it's growth will have to slow because of how much it has exploded in the past year. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] Everybody has a right to their opinion, but the numbers don't lie. UFC's growth shows no signs of slowing. [/ QUOTE ] Logically it's growth will have to slow because of how much it has exploded in the past year. [/ QUOTE ] They've just acquired Pride Fighting and now have far and away the best roster of MMA fighters in the world. They still have lots of room to grow with the quality of the fights they can now potentially put together. I think we won't have a good sense of where the UFC will top out at until about the end of 2008. That should be enough time for the UFC to shake things out with this acquisition and put on quality PPV after PPV. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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How long would it take Mayweather to develop enough of a ground game to be able to fight in the UFC? I'm guessing about 18 months of intense training and he would be able to have enough ground defense to get into a ring. [/ QUOTE ] It depends on what you mean by "get into a ring". When Cro Cop started, he had basically no ground defense at all. At first, he even had to fight in matches with special rules. But within two years, he was one of the top 3 HWs in Pride. Within four years, an NCAA national champion in wrestling and an Olympic Gold medal Judoka can't take him down. Cro Cop vs. Yoshida Cro Cop vs. Coleman Cro Cop's MMA record |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
Both FM and White make idiotic statements in this. A buncha hot air from both sides.
A UFC fighter isn't going to beat a champion boxer at boxing and vice versa. However, I think the better chance goes to a boxer fighting in the UFC(many UFC fights were on without going to the ground). The boxing skill in UFC is atrocious(one benefit Liddell has is that his competition absolutely sucks in the boxing dept.) No way a UFC beats any top ranked fighter in boxing. b |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
DKSr, I hope you are right. I would like to see the fighters stood up for inactivity on the ground. I don't want to pay to watch nothing happening.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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DKSr, I hope you are right. I would like to see the fighters stood up for inactivity on the ground. I don't want to pay to watch nothing happening. [/ QUOTE ] I think the UFC needs to add something like the Pride yellow card to avoid boring standup fights like Arlovski/Werdum and Sanchez/Koscheck. Those were brutal. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] DKSr, I hope you are right. I would like to see the fighters stood up for inactivity on the ground. I don't want to pay to watch nothing happening. [/ QUOTE ] I think the UFC needs to add something like the Pride yellow card to avoid boring standup fights like Arlovski/Werdum and Sanchez/Koscheck. Those were brutal. [/ QUOTE ] I'm convinced that since Arlovski lost his title to Sylvia, he's been trying to sabotage the UFC by having the most boring fights in the history of MMA. I think the UFC needs to dump him. The heavyweight division is stacked right now and they don't need him, even if he were to fight like his old self again. Koscheck has always been boring because he only knows how to wrestle and has no idea how to finish a fight. I was starting to think the same thing about Rashad Evans, but his last couple fights finally gave me hope that he can be an entertaining fighter. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Whatever. MMA is littered with people who couldn't hack it in the ring. You don't see it working the other way. That should pretty much say everything. Eliot, MMA is already where wrestling was. In the trailer parks and joke book. [/ QUOTE ] Your comments in this thread show complete ignorance as to the direction in which these two sports are headed. [/ QUOTE ]Eh, to be honest, I think UFC is a fad. The fights are cool, but in all honesty, most don't live up to the hype. The ground game is probably the most boring aspect of the it and the trend seems to be to going in that direction. If anything, UFC was much cooler when it was filled with boxing outcast that loved beating the hell out of people. All these MMA guys are pretty boring to watch. If Liddell wasn't in UFC, I think I probably wouldn't even watch it. [/ QUOTE ] Everybody has a right to their opinion, but the numbers don't lie. UFC's growth shows no signs of slowing. [/ QUOTE ] Logically it's growth will have to slow because of how much it has exploded in the past year. [/ QUOTE ] They've just acquired Pride Fighting and now have far and away the best roster of MMA fighters in the world. They still have lots of room to grow with the quality of the fights they can now potentially put together. I think we won't have a good sense of where the UFC will top out at until about the end of 2008. That should be enough time for the UFC to shake things out with this acquisition and put on quality PPV after PPV. [/ QUOTE ] UFC has also just signed a deal with HBO. There's a lot happening right now. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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Most people in MMA didn't start off trying to get into the boxing scene. Many of them come from wrestling and judo backgrounds. [/ QUOTE ] It didn't take long for world class wrestlers to make a name for themselves in the sport. Just as it didn't take long for the Brazilian submission fighters to make a splash. Both were highly specialized and had to adapt to a wider range of skills. The question is really, how long would it take for a boxer to learn take down and submission defense? Most people truly underestimate how devastating a boxer would be on his feet. Joe PS. We're not likely to see a boxer in his prime make the switch because the training would probably have a negative effect on his overall boxing skills. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
Pure brazilian submission fighters were only truly effective in the early stages of the UFC. This is because nobody was that familiar with their style and nobody had takedown defense. They were able to take down opponents whenever they wanted and then dominate them. Once more fighters started adapting, so did the Brazilian submission fighters.
I don't think anyone is arguing that a boxer couldn't train to become a monster in mma. The problem is at the moment no boxer will make the switch to mma. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
There seems to be a lot of fear coming from the boxing community right now. Whether or not these comments are jokes, it's pretty obvious that MMA definitely has boxing's attention.
With regards to a top rank boxer being able to dominate MMA, I'm not so sure. Most of said boxers will have been training for years in boxing, and I doubt they could learn to properly defend against certain fighting styles. I think a world class boxer can develop an excellent sprawl and dominate wrestlers, but I don't see a PBF being able to handle a K1 style fighter like Buakaw. Even with 18 months of training, how does a PBF even get to the point where he can get close enough to Buakaw without eating ~fifty leg kicks? Against a fighter like Sherk, I could see PBF having the edge. With a decent sprawl Sherk would be at a disadvantage, imo. I guess that I could see a boxer coming into the HW division and tearing it up though, someone like Lennox who has an obvious reach advantage over everyone else. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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watch any of the recent big heavyweight fights in the MMA and you see a bunch of clumsy, unathletic, bad boxers [/ QUOTE ]this is because you can't look as greatful punching when you also have to guard against a takedown. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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Why would any top boxer want to fight for a meager mid 5 figure-miniscule 6 figure payday when their sport pays millions to it's stars. [/ QUOTE ] Why do pro athletes try hard in the playoffs when the playoff bonus money is so insignificant compared to their normal salaries? Its because many world class athletes love competition and want to prove that they are the best. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] watch any of the recent big heavyweight fights in the MMA and you see a bunch of clumsy, unathletic, bad boxers [/ QUOTE ]this is because you can't look as greatful punching when you also have to guard against a takedown. [/ QUOTE ] ... |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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Why do pro athletes try hard in the playoffs when the playoff bonus money is so insignificant compared to their normal salaries? Its because many world class athletes love competition and want to prove that they are the best. [/ QUOTE ] You are wrong, there is a lot of money at stake for the players during the playoffs of every pro sport. A great or poor playoff performance can have a huge effect on that players next contract, endorsements, tv ads, everything. They aren't just doing it for the love of the game, although of course thats a factor, they also know that if they put in a great performance they will get a lot more money. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] watch any of the recent big heavyweight fights in the MMA and you see a bunch of clumsy, unathletic, bad boxers [/ QUOTE ]this is because you can't look as greatful punching when you also have to guard against a takedown. [/ QUOTE ] ... [/ QUOTE ]obviously meant to type "graceful." |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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[ QUOTE ] Why do pro athletes try hard in the playoffs when the playoff bonus money is so insignificant compared to their normal salaries? Its because many world class athletes love competition and want to prove that they are the best. [/ QUOTE ] You are wrong, there is a lot of money at stake for the players during the playoffs of every pro sport. A great or poor playoff performance can have a huge effect on that players next contract, endorsements, tv ads, everything. They aren't just doing it for the love of the game, although of course thats a factor, they also know that if they put in a great performance they will get a lot more money. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, so what about an athlete that is set to retire after this year? Do you think he tries during the playoffs? |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Why do pro athletes try hard in the playoffs when the playoff bonus money is so insignificant compared to their normal salaries? Its because many world class athletes love competition and want to prove that they are the best. [/ QUOTE ] You are wrong, there is a lot of money at stake for the players during the playoffs of every pro sport. A great or poor playoff performance can have a huge effect on that players next contract, endorsements, tv ads, everything. They aren't just doing it for the love of the game, although of course thats a factor, they also know that if they put in a great performance they will get a lot more money. [/ QUOTE ] Ok, so what about an athlete that is set to retire after this year? Do you think he tries during the playoffs? [/ QUOTE ] Of course he tries. Obviously guys that are playing their last couple games are going to be inspired. I never said that stuff like pride competition didn't motivate players, it does. I said that one of the reasons they put forth extra effort in the playoffs is because there is a lot of money at stake. It's just wrong to say that the money differential between different playoff finishes is "insignificant". It's large. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
Mike,
"Why would any top boxer want to fight for a meager mid 5 figure-miniscule 6 figure payday when their sport pays millions to it's stars." It's still not boxing, but here's what Dana White has to say about that: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...al_throws.html "Chuck Liddell is probably our biggest star, and he'll make about $9m this year - not including endorsements. Nobody's seen a $30m payday like an Oscar De La Hoya yet, but these guys are making millions of dollars." |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
Bodog was rumored to be offering Fedor Emelianenko $3 million/fight FWIW.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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The question is really, how long would it take for a boxer to learn take down and submission defense? Most people truly underestimate how devastating a boxer would be on his feet. [/ QUOTE ] I answered this question above. Cro Cop, a highly regarded kickboxer came into MMA in 2001 with absolutely no clue as to takedown defense. He was proficient by 2003 (he avoided being taken down by Noguiera for most of their fight) and by 2005, he couldn't be taken down by Mark Coleman (former NCAA wrestling champion) and by 2006 he couldn't be taken down by Hidehiko Yoshida (Olympic gold medalist in Judo). Waterman (another accomplished wrestler) took him down in 2004. But I believe he avoided being taken down by anyone else until his fight with Fedor. That's 9 fights without being taken down. Since the Fedor fight, I think only Gonzaga was able to take him down. So he went on a 17 match streak where the only person who could take him down was Fedor. (I'm not sure how you count the first Barnett fight, though. Barnett injured himself taking CroCop down. I didn't see the second Barnett match, so maybe he took Cro Cop down there.) So it should only take 2 years for an accomplished boxer to have a good enough takedown defense to be competitive. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
i dont get the 3 5 minute rounds. imo its an awful structure.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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i dont get the 3 5 minute rounds. imo its an awful structure. [/ QUOTE ] What would you use? |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
5 three minute rounds could have more action.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
Rounds being too short would hurt grapplers.
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Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
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5 three minute rounds could have more action. [/ QUOTE ] You're giving strikers a huge advantage with shorter rounds. A guy like Minotauro Nogueira gets punished by shorter rounds because he doesn't have time to apply subs. |
Re: Mayweather calls out UFC and MMA as a whole...
yeah thats my point, the grappling is stupid.
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