Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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I also feel like I was too flat-backed in the dead lift, I try to keep my back upright but when I start to struggle my legs go up and my back arches, bad bad bad.

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Are you holding your breath throughout the lift? This can help maintain core stability. In all honesty though, if you feel like your lower back especially is beggining to or is losing its arch just let go of the weight immediately. Struggling through a lift with an arched lower back is the cause of almost all deadlift injuries.

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When you guys say arched, you really mean rounded, right?

Arched is the natural lumbar curvature, rounded is what you would do when you touch your toes. I just want to make sure a little natural back ARCH is ok, but any rounding is bad. AMIRITE?

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Yeah sorry I misstyped. Arched back = good, flat back = not good, rounded back = injury time.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Dead lift skinned my shin again. The bar runs into the middle of my shin on the way up and then as I pull through the lift it just rips the skin off cuz the bar is like a cheese grater.

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How wide is your stance? Unless you have extremely wide hips your shins should be within the knurling which will help. What grip do you use? If it is both overhand try alternating grip as it will reduce the pull toward you and against your legs. Remember to alternate which hand you have overhand/underhand though. As a last resort just wear long socks or tape your shins.


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This is good advice. Also, if you're getting scraped up really bad you might be starting the pull too early (ie not enough leg drive). I explained that really poorly, there are a couple good videos I could link to but youtube seems to be down at the moment.

Yeah, this could be easily misinterpreted, just ignore me til i post a video.
edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71den...ed&search=
iirc, this video touches on it briefly. sorry, don't remember where exactly.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

arched is the equiv of u stnading up at attention and giving say a military salute correct.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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arched is the equiv of u stnading up at attention and giving say a military salute correct.

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yup, other key is try and pull your shoulder blades together, check out some videos of o-lifters on youtube. their backs are always arched.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.

Charlie, heres a google image of a box squat. That's an arched back.
http://www.wannabebig.com/images/chipboxsquat.jpg

rounded back
http://www.fitstep.com/Library/Exerc...nched-over.jpg

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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How wide is your stance? Unless you have extremely wide hips your shins should be within the knurling which will help.

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Hmm, I've been using roughly my squat stance but maybe it should be narrower.

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Are you holding your breath throughout the lift? This can help maintain core stability.

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Interesting, I'd always heard holding your breath is bad and you should be exhaling, no ?

So I read through the description of how to deadlift again and I think I have my starting position wrong. I'm starting sort of how you would be in the bottom of a squat, which is with the legs way bent, my back trying to be vertical, and my knees well in front of the bar. Looking at Rippetoe's diagrams, the knees are behind the bar even at the bottom of the deadlift, and the shins are roughly vertical throughout the whole lift (my shins are way bent forward at the start of the lift which is why I'm hitting them).

Next time I hit the gym I'll practice it with no weight and try to fix my form.

For the record this is Rippetoe's technical article on deadlift form :

http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ofDeadlift.pdf
51-2006_AnalysisofDeadlift.pdf (application/pdf Object)

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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yup, other key is try and pull your shoulder blades together, check out some videos of o-lifters on youtube. their backs are always arched.

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CDS - watch the Dan John video posted earlier in this thread, it's long but it's really good. He says to pinch the shoulder blades and "make the chest big" like you're posing on the beach. Thinking that really helps my squat form.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

I prefer stiff-legged deadlifts. That isn't very helpful to the discussion; just thought I'd throw it out there.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Hmm, I've been using roughly my squat stance but maybe it should be narrower.

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Almost certainly.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.


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Word up. Part 1 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt423i1w6vs
YouTube - Tommy Kono lecture/ instruction on Olympic Lifting Part 1

it's all about the deadlift, very good, thanks guys.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Yeah sorry I misstyped. Arched back = good, flat back = not good, rounded back = injury time.

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Why is flat not good? I thought it was a safe position for the vertebrae.

Also, occasionally some dudes will be doing round backed stiffish-leg deadlifts, are those safe? Do you just have to start light to let your body adjust? I'm a little confused on this issue, I've seen arguments for and against round backed dl's.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Dave Draper:
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What is meant by a flat, straight or arched back is this: you are maintaining or slightly accentuating your normal lumbar curve. This means the back is slightly concave when view from the side.

Hands are just shoulder width apart on the bar, with a pronated (knuckles up) grip.

Inhale and lift the chest. Now, while looking forward, begin to pivot from the hips (so as to maintain the normal lumbar curve) and bend forward. Quite naturally, your hips will want to move slightly back (to the rear) as you do this. Don't fight this movement. You should feel a tension in the erectors and especially the glutes and hamstrings throughout the movement.

While you are doing this, the legs are slightly bent and held rigidly in that slightly bent position. This movement should be more accurately called a rigid legged-deadlift, rather than a stiff-legged deadlift, since stiff connotes "straight" to most people and it is emphatically NOT a straight-legged position.

The movement that you are trying to emulate is the movement of one of those "drinking bird" toys...get the picture?

Descend only as far as you can go before you begin to round the back (losing the lumbar curve) or you increase the knee bend. It is not necessary to touch the floor, nor is it recommended, since you tend to relax your form when you contact the floor. Exhale slowly about half way up on the return trip.

During the entire movement, keep your eyes forward. Let your head follow the spine throughout the movement, neither looking up or down. Looking down has a tendency to encourage rounding the back and should be avoided.

Some "authorities" recommend standing on a bench and doing this movement, so that you can drop below the level of the feet. This is bad advice. First off, balance is difficult in this position. Second, unless unusually supple, most people can't stretch that far without rounding the lower back.

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Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

It did take me a while to realize that deadlift is not just like a squat in reverse -- for one, the hips start a touch higher than in an ATG squat. I would definitely revert back to 135 lbs (45 on each side) and work on form. (It's kind of tricky working on deadlift form with the bar only. The other thing you could do is use 25s on each side and rest them on a platform of plates so that the bar is about as level as they would be if 45s were on them. Hope that makes sense.)

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Rippetoe - RESET today

I decided to just reset on some of my exercises to fix my form and see if I could get off the hack squat.

Deadlift - 45
Front Squat - 10

I did deadlifts with just a 45 on each side. I'm going to start there for the reset. I think my form was pretty good, the legs are much straighter and the pull is more from the back. It's really hard for me to bend down and grab the weight and have a good arched back, it stretches the hamstrings like crazy. I think that's the correct form. I was thinking of what Dan John says - you push the hips back and keep the back arched and bending over just happens, you don't try to bend over, you're just pushing your hips back.

Front Squat feels really bad with my shoulder, I still can't get my elbows high enough to keep the upper arm horizontal, so I might bail on that but we'll see, I'm gonna try to do it.

After doing those I decided to just bail on doing a full routine and spent the time stretching and working on form and checking my form out in the mirror a lot.

I might try to take some video so you guys can check my form out. There's nobody at my gym here who I trust at all, there are some huge guys but they're total gym rat meat-heads.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

cbloom, I've also been meaning to take some videos using my cell phone just to double-check my form. I've got a feeling that the hamstring stretch you're describing might be because you're starting with your hips too high. This would also explain the feeling that you're bending over the bar.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

I'm still ramping back up on my reset, trying to make sure my form is right.

Deadlift 70
Front Squat 20
Pendlay Row 20
Bench 55

(x2 +bar)

I didn't reset the Bench and now I'm kind of stuck on that too, I keep doing 55 for 5-4-4 sets, so I guess I have to jump down and try to reset that too. It all feels really hard right now.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

cbloom,

Can you put those lifts in std form. Like add them up for us and the bar. You are using kilos or pounds or... Its just very hard to follow your log.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

4/12 Rippetoe A

Front Squat 25 = 95x3x5
Bench 45 = 135x3x5
Deadlift 75 = 195x1x5

I was feeling weak so I went ahead and reset my bench down too since I've been stalled at 55 for a while now. Squat and DL are coming back up from the reset a week ago.

I've had several [censored] workouts in a row recently cuz I'm always hung over. I need to [censored] quit drinking.

In other happier news - I was able to throw a football yesterday!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Granted, they were very girly throws, I still can't really get my arm all the way up, but that's a nice step.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Thanks.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5


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Standard form is (weight)x(sets)x(reps) ; don't do weird notation like me.

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also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

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Normal quad stretch should do that, the one where you grab your foot and pull it to your butt. You should probably read on the web about stretching.

BTW you should NOT really do hard stretching before lifting, you should do some light stretching and warm up the muscles. You can do hard stretching at a totally different time, on off days or at night or something. Also "hard" not = straining, you should never strain or bounce when stretching, you just want to gently pull your stretch.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Sorry, think it was part 1 of that series. Just disregard that post.

Charlie, heres a google image of a box squat. That's an arched back.
http://www.wannabebig.com/images/chipboxsquat.jpg

rounded back
http://www.fitstep.com/Library/Exerc...nched-over.jpg

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i hav about that much lean in my squat..but was worried it was too much.

In the DJ video someone posted he says raise your chin up, puff out yr chest and then push out yr ass like yr trying to touch a wall a foot or two behind u.

i also went waaay lower that the dude with the box..though maybe its just cuz the box is there. Is my ass actually supposed to touch cuz it basically was.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Second photo is whack. Hips rise and he leans over to compensate... Def not something you wanna do with the bar unloaded. Also why West Side has guys doing really heavy good mornings.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

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Search my posts in this forum. I give a link to a t-nation article on hardcore stretching.

EDIT: Hamstring flexibility is important for ass to grass squatting. If you're tight, it will make your back round at the bottom, it just pulls your butt under you without you even knowing it.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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thremp/cbloom-- in logs like this do u normally just list the total weight--i.e. 30+30+bar(45)= 105x3x5

also do u guys recommend any good stretch exercises to loosen up ones upper thighs..mainly the front part of them? or is riding the stationary bike etc for a couple of minutes just as good as stretching?

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Search my posts in this forum. I give a link to a t-nation article on hardcore stretching.

EDIT: Hamstring flexibility is important for ass to grass squatting. If you're tight, it will make your back round at the bottom, it just pulls your butt under you without you even knowing it.

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This is something I recently discovered. It really sucks [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]. Women really have it made for weight training - naturally good flexibility means their form comes along so much quicker.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

4/15 Rippetoe B

Front Squat 25 = 95x3x5
Pendlay Row 25 = 95x3x5
Pullups 9,5,4

Doh, should've done 30's a side on the squat but read my log wrong. Squat felt bad anyway, hammies were really tight and it was making me round my back bad, which makes the weight fall off the front in the front squat which is a big disaster.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

4/18 Rippetoe A

Front Squat 30 = 105x3x5
Bench 47.5 = 140x3x5
DeadLift 80 = 205x1x5

Felt strong today. Took a sudafed in the morning and it had me bouncing off the walls, the hardest thing was making myself take a full rest.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

4/20 Rippetoe B

Front Squat 35 = 115x3x5
Pendlay Row 30 = 105x3x5
Pullups 5,5

Gonna do 32.5 a side on the row next time. Booze and women are holding me back so much...

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Holy crap. I've been putting off lifting mostly because I don't know how to lift so I've been just trying to get exercise like walking on the golf course. I was hoping to lift when I got back to vegas because I have a friend who knows his way around the gym.

Starting Strength seems like the perfect book for me to get so I can start lifting without someone having to babysit me. In the past I would work out with someone who knew all the exercises and I just did what they did. I guess this is a must buy for me.

So basically, this book teaches beginners who want to make strength gains how to lift correctly and efficiently?

Edit: I can't believe I passed over this thread!

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

I just picked it up because of this forum. I haven't really dug into it that much, but it goes into great detail on the exercises with tons of pictures.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=712752

this thread had this quote in the OP...

"Here is a routine from Mark Rippetoe’s book called “Starting Strength”. You can buy the book at www.startingstrength.com. It includes endless useful info that all beginners should learn. But as for the program he suggests, his clients that he gives it to on AVERAGE gain 30-40 pounds in about 6 months or so which is amazing gains."

That part made me look twice as I'm still 215lbs with a goal of 160-170. I'm assuming he's referring to people who are eating tons in order to get big?

Correct me if my logic is off: People who have a big caloric surplus get huge, but I could technically maintain a 500 caloric deficit and continue to lose weight/body fat while helping to maintain lbm and make strength gains at the same time. Am I right?

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

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Yeah, I almost didn't even put that in. I should have put, "slow down lbm loss".

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

also, am i getting a simple guide for coaching beginners, or barbell basics?

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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also, am i getting a simple guide for coaching beginners, or barbell basics?

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Barbell basics is not out yet, though I heard on BB.com it was just completed.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

Its a lie.


Don't listen to some of the hyperbole [censored] many authors put out. CP said he put 30+ lbs in 4 months on a national level bodybuilder. I'd bet souls he's a liar.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

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Yes, technically.

Practically though, the "maintain lbm" is difficult.

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Yeah, I almost didn't even put that in. I should have put, "slow down lbm loss".

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I believe us newbies can lose weight and gain STRENGTH at the same time.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

If you're carrying some fat you can *definitely* lose fat and gain muscle. You might not actually lose any weight doing that, though.

From my own history I really feel like the #1 thing is to get strong, and then losing weight once you're strong is so much easier.

Re: cbloom\'s log - Rippetoe & Frozen Shoulder
 

A day in a few hours I'm trying to get psyched up. This is my new inspiration for the front squat :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-...ed&search=

(Dabaya 200kg)