Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its painfully obvious that none/most of you have even bothered to read the [censored] book.

I think reading a book should be a pre-requisite to criticizing its contents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read the book. I found it not only useless, but irritating in that it tried to come up with flashy sounding, pseudo-scientific concepts like the "cash flow quadrant" that are completely contentless.

Can you tell us one specific thing you learned from the book?

eastbay

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

I read 2-3 of his books including RDPD. FWIW I think his books are somewhere between "Learn Poker from the Pros" and WLLH, except remove every hand example. The best part of RDPD was the list of recommended books at the back.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
How to generate passive income through real estate.

[/ QUOTE ]

like... what?

[ QUOTE ]
Tons of other money saving, income producing tips and ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

like... what?

[ QUOTE ]
That rich people do not work hard, they have others work hard for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

????

After people read that, are they supposed to think, "Ahhh, I've got to get other people to work for me to get rich!! Now I know exactly what I have to go out and do to get more money!"

[ QUOTE ]
The idea that a business could be an asset (if it does not require your time)

[/ QUOTE ]

????

What does that even mean?




Kiyosaki's books and TV specials are mostly filler and meaningless cliches that are designed to convince people to buy tickets to his expensive seminars ($2500 for two days) or his expensive collection of books ($545 for "Rich Dad's Ultimate Pack!"). That is all there is to his schtick.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]


How to use corporations to save on your tax bill.



[/ QUOTE ]

Corporations don't necessarily save on your tax bill, in fact they actually will dramatically increase your tax bill if wrongly implemented. In RDPD he not only doesn't explain this, it seems clear he doesn't understand this. He also promotes tax fraud, telling you to write off things that are clearly not allowed.

[ QUOTE ]

That rich people do not work hard, they have others work hard for them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I know a few rich people, and they work harder than any of their employees. That's how they got rich. Businesses don't run themselves. Passive real estate isn't really passive, you need to carefully pick and improve the right real estate and watch it like a hawk.

[ QUOTE ]

The idea of buying luxury goods with passive income, not with earned income, is a better route to riches.


[/ QUOTE ]

Buying luxury goods is never a route to riches, no matter which income stream you choose to pay for them with. Luxury goods depreciate, reducing your net worth over time. Investments appreciate, increasing your net worth over time.

[ QUOTE ]

The advice of not listening to scared people who work for the man. The advice that other people are going to tell you you are wrong or stupid for doing what you are doing.


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, you are taking advice from a guy who made up "rich dad", most of his own personal history, and has shown no evidence he's built any successful business, other than the RDPD franchise.

[ QUOTE ]

People told me that. For all intents and purposes I am retired at age 25. I'm laughing now, while they are still pumping 9-5's. Ship it. Kiyosaki rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why give Kiyosaki credit when you did the work? If you retired at 25, then you've proven to be a much smarter, better businessman than him.

There are many inspirational books that tell you how to become an entrepeneur, save your money and invest in good businesses in order to get rich or avoid the rat race. I'd recommend one that is more factual and useful than RDPD.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

What was funny in his book is how he says someone who makes 30k has to pay 50% in taxes! Even people who make 300k in almost never have to pay this much. But I have to say his books are interesting stories, maybe that's why they sell so well.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Its painfully obvious that none/most of you have even bothered to read the [censored] book.

I think reading a book should be a pre-requisite to criticizing its contents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read the book. I found it not only useless, but irritating in that it tried to come up with flashy sounding, pseudo-scientific concepts like the "cash flow quadrant" that are completely contentless.

Can you tell us one specific thing you learned from the book?

eastbay

[/ QUOTE ]

How to use corporations to save on your tax bill.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, fair enough. If you didn't know that there was such a thing as a business tax deduction, then you might learn something from the book. But it seems to me you'd really have to be living under a rock from birth to age 2x to not already be aware of that.

[ QUOTE ]

How to generate passive income through real estate.

The idea that a business could be an asset (if it does not require your time).

That my car is not an asset (or at least not one worth investing in).


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe you can explain to me, given the maintenance requirements and typical value over time of a car, how you could not have known that a car is not an investment except in very rare circumstances? I have a hard time believing that you think you didn't know this before reading the book.

[ QUOTE ]

That rich people do not work hard, they have others work hard for them.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's unadulterated [censored], and it's nearing a precipice of evil, where the worth of another is measured solely in terms of how they can enrich you materially. Beware.

[ QUOTE ]

The idea of buying luxury goods with passive income, not with earned income, is a better route to riches.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? That doesn't even say anything.



[ QUOTE ]

edit: I'll add that i read this book almost immediately after graduating from college. my whole life i had dreamed of what salaried job i could get and how much money somebody else could pay me for working for them. this book turned that all on its head. it taught me that the true route to extreme riches is in working for somebody else only as long as you have to (however long that may be...for me it was one year, for others it may be 10 or 20, whatever) and then making your real money working for youself, and having your money work for you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think people are ignorant of the fact that entrepreneurship has potentially unlimited rewards, but many choose what they think is a safer route, and decide not to make "extreme riches" the goal of their life. I don't begrudge people who make those choices, it can be a reasonable trade-off depending on what one wants to do with their life.

If you want "extreme riches", then certainly working for BigCorp 9-5 is not the way to go. I just can't understand how that could be a revelation.

eastbay

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

1. re: corporations/tax

What you called "the most valuable piece of advice from the book" turns out to be incorrect. Then you backtrack and say "His book is not an instruction manual for how to do it". This is the whole freaking point, his book is not an instruction manual, it is lame motivation fluff that tries to parade itself as serious financial advice so he can hawk his ripoff seminars and packages.

2. re: his advice on earning passive income and money saving tips

My entire point is that the book is devoid of specific useful examples on how do to this. I asked you what they were, and instead of listing them, you said "if you read the book you'd know." That made me lol. Seriously, if they exist, please list them.

3. "Ever hard the adage, 'those who can, do. those who can't, teach'? He's a damned good teacher. Whether he can/does on his own or not is really irrelevant to me."

Do you not care at all that his "rich dad" character and apparently most of his personal history is fiction? The only thing worse than anecdotal evidence is made up anecdotal evidence.

4. DC's point about giving too much credit to Kiyosaki is totally correct. You did all the work and creative thinking, he did none.

5. This point: "Kiyosaki's books and TV specials are mostly filler and meaningless cliches that are designed to convince people to buy tickets to his expensive seminars ($2500 for two days) or his expensive collection of books ($545 for "Rich Dad's Ultimate Pack!"). That is all there is to his schtick."

still stands. His whole RDPD franchise is a ripoff.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]

most people dont...

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't agree with that. I think Kiyosaki somehow made you believe that you learned something when in fact you didn't.

I don't believe that you didn't know that almost all cars lose value over time, for example. You claim you did not know this? You had never looked in an auto trader?

I also don't believe that you never knew that a business could make tax deductions for business expenses. You claim you did not know this?

eastbay

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

So you're not disputing that the RDPD book is mostly fluff and cliches designed to lure people into going to expensive lectures and buying expensive packages and boardgames?

Again, you said that the books shows people

[ QUOTE ]
How to generate passive income through real estate...

Tons of other money saving, income producing tips and ideas.


[/ QUOTE ]

then I said:

[ QUOTE ]
...like what?

[/ QUOTE ]

you said

[ QUOTE ]
if you read the book you'd know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, if they exist, please list them. Are they top secret or something?

also: Do you not care at all that his "rich dad" character and apparently most of his personal history is fiction? The only thing worse than anecdotal evidence is made up anecdotal evidence.

Post deleted by Mat Sklansky
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
But if you are just gonna tell me this stuff is all common sense, I disagree with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will say this about the book: It was better than that "Who Moved My Cheese" book/franchise. Fortheloveofgod.

eastbay

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

Right, he covers very specific things, like "the stock market", "finance", and "real estate."

bwhahwhahahahaa

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

I liked the book, too.

No, it isn't specific and doesn't provide people with no imagination, creativity or drive with the instructions on how to be rich. (Those specific instructions can't be found anywhere)

But for some people, it offers a bit of a wake up call and motivation to get started on ones path to financial freedom.

I've been a lazy bastard most of my life.

Creativity wasn't the problem. I started have my own little small businesses and projects from an early age, and did ok, but never fully grasped the big picture.

I was able to "make a living" at it, but didn't "think big".

The simple concept of "setting goals" (which any motivational/inspirational book always preaches) hadn't really occured to me.

My goals were vague and non-specific. And a lot of the time I was too lazy to even get around to working towards that vague and non-specific future.

This is hard to explain to someone who intuitively have thought this way most/all their lives.

For me, and many others - setting goals, including financial ones, and working towards them just wasn't something that came natural to me.

When I was 25, after being a lazy bastard all my life, I finally "woke up", and started taking charge of my life and directions, setting goals and decided plain and simple that I'm going to financially free.

During my "wake up" period, I read a few motivational books, and Robert Kiyosaki had written one of them.

In a motivational way it worked very well for me (including some other books, like the E-Myth Revisited, which is much more specific btw (on small business done the "B"-quadrant way, as Kiyosaki would say)

I didn't really look for specific instructions on how to become rich - but the book made me get a clearer picture of what to aim for financially, and when building a business.

It took me only a year from "wake up time" (when I was working a job with 0 in savings) until I was my own boss and didn't need to work for anyone else again. (yet [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

The quadrant stuff is, imho, a good way of seperating types of income.

I make good money playing poker, but it's much clearer to me now than it used to be, how little value this type of income has compared to passive income.

Since my "wake up" I'm finally "accumulating wealth" and "building passive income" instead of just wasting whatever money I had on stuff I didn't need.

I'm not saying Robert Kiyosaki did all that for me, because his book was probably just a small piece of the puzzle for me.

The book isn't for everyone.

I agree that it's a little basic and cheesy sometimes, and in general I'm not a big fan of infomercial-people and "gurus".

BUT for anyone truly interested in building their own businesses and investments and not "working for the man" (I know a lot of people "working for the man" who would laugh at this book) - and who isn't already there, I can't see how checking out his book is a bad thing.

Playing poker professionally isn't "financial freedom".

It's work.

Thinking ahead, spending less than you're making, and building passive income so that at one point one doesn't really have to do anything for money - is a much more desirable route (for me, at least) - then being able to make, say $150 an hour playing poker, today...

Oh well [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think that's unadulterated [censored], and it's nearing a precipice of evil, where the worth of another is measured solely in terms of how they can enrich you materially. Beware.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, eastbay. This is great. You and I don't always agree 100% about things, but we're totally on the same page here.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

Oddly enough, I think Kiyosaki's newest article on Yahoo is very good.

http://finance.yahoo.com/columnist/a...ichricher/7810

Maybe he read this thread and got scared.

Edit: I should probably add that I think he's way too late to the party for someone who's writing articles for a finance site, but at leat the idea and reasoning/explanation are good.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its painfully obvious that none/most of you have even bothered to read the [censored] book.

I think reading a book should be a pre-requisite to criticizing its contents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've read it. I think his basic idea is fine, but somehow he has turned this into hundreds and hundreds of pages of junk.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

(For example, if inflation is at 5 percent and interest rates are at 5 percent, the real interest rate is 0 percent. So, in this example, to increase demand for the dollar, the Federal Reserve would have to raise interest rates above 5 percent, to, say, 8 percent. That would means investors would receive a net 3 percent return on their money.)

This is such crap, when i read his latest article i thought it was the worst one yet.



-Alex

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

I liked the part where he owns gold mining companies in the 70s. He then said that the companies wouldn't be successful unless the price of gold went up. ???

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
(For example, if inflation is at 5 percent and interest rates are at 5 percent, the real interest rate is 0 percent. So, in this example, to increase demand for the dollar, the Federal Reserve would have to raise interest rates above 5 percent, to, say, 8 percent. That would means investors would receive a net 3 percent return on their money.)

This is such crap, when i read his latest article i thought it was the worst one yet.



-Alex

[/ QUOTE ]
Why did you think it was bad? What about that quote is wrong?

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
I liked the part where he owns gold mining companies in the 70s. He then said that the companies wouldn't be successful unless the price of gold went up. ???

[/ QUOTE ]
Gold mines that depend on gold prices incresing are a pretty classic example of real options. What is so bad about this?

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

I loved RDPD.

Why should I work for money when I can have my assets work for money?


And to the person who said, "I didn't read the book but just invest 60% of take home pay and you'll be OK" - that's not even close to what this book is trying to teach.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

Well maybe he was talking about owning stock of gold mines. I guarentee he has never owned a gold mining company.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

What is wrong with is that interest rates aren't additive, their are mulpicative. Another words, if the fed rate is 5% and inflation rate is 5% the true real interest rate is NOT zero. Example.
I have 100 dollars which i can invest at 5%, per above, at the end of the year i will have 105 dollars, with the buying power of 99.75, thus true rate was negative 0.25%

105*.95.

And that is not all.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bump!

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, you bumped this thread, with a article that starts with... "I haven’t read Rich Dad Poor Dad but I assume it contains common sense" ?

Seems that the common sense should be, not critiquing a book you haven't read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bump!

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, you bumped this thread, with a article that starts with... "I haven’t read Rich Dad Poor Dad but I assume it contains common sense" ?

Seems that the common sense should be, not critiquing a book you haven't read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

the critique seems to actually focus on his yahoo articles, not the book.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bump!

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, you bumped this thread, with a article that starts with... "I haven’t read Rich Dad Poor Dad but I assume it contains common sense" ?

Seems that the common sense should be, not critiquing a book you haven't read [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

the critique seems to actually focus on his yahoo articles, not the book.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, I don't see how that's relevant. The article is basically saying, "Hey, he wrote a bunch of really dumb stuff that I read, but this other thing that I haven't read has a ton of fanboys so there's a chance it sucks less."

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

FWIW, I got RK's book on Investing about a month ago when I started trying to learn about investing. About half way in I started thinking that his stories don't add up. If it's too good to be true, it probably is. Anyway, then I found John Reed's critique and was pissed that I wasted $15 on the book. The minute I saw RK was plugged in with the MLM circuit I knew I'd been duped.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

With all the differing opinions expressed here, I still think it would be a good idea to do a reading and analysis of RDPD in the forum. Is there enough interest? Should make for good discussion.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Robert Kiyosaki is a maroon

[/ QUOTE ]


http://www.btinternet.com/~varsity_uk/Morans.jpg

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

People these days would rather hate and put others down than learn from them and making themselves better people.

It is such a waste of precious time to dig the most dirt out of someone to put them down for whatever reason.

Thanks to Robert Kiyosaki and his books, I won't ever need to have a J-O-B ever again.


John T Reed is quite a comical character. He devotes atleast more than 50% of his website space to bashing real estate gurus. Ask him how many of those courses he actually spent time to learn from. It is just as rediculous as critiquing a book you never read.

He bashes gurus for their "rediculously overpriced" real estate courses which are priced in the thousands.

Tell me this, if you figured out a way to do Real Estate investing that enabled you to produce hundreds of thousands of dollars as well as costing you hundreds of thousands of dollars in mistakes, and you compounded it into a huge manual with 10+ Audio cds, would you sell it for 30 bucks on ebay? 9/10 advice is worth the amount you paid for.

Some of the courses I paid 100 bucks for on ebay... Today I would EASILY buy them for 10-20X the price if I could not get them any other way.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

Reed goes in depth about why these people are full of [censored] so he clearly has read the books.He is not just bashing someone for the sake of bashing them.

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reed goes in depth about why these people are full of [censored] so he clearly has read the books.He is not just bashing someone for the sake of bashing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's bashing the author... but the point of the book is not the author, it is the content... and the content is Motivational for a lot of people...

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

What if the content is incorrect, and leads people to make bad decisions?

Re: Robert Kiyosaki
 

[ QUOTE ]
Reed goes in depth about why these people are full of [censored] so he clearly has read the books.He is not just bashing someone for the sake of bashing them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have studied both sides of the coin. I have walked the path that Reed says is "illegal", "Inethical", "impossible" to walk and I have done it legally, ethically, and very possibly.

One of those "tricks" he deems is illegal is the "subject to" trick where you take title to a house in your name but leave the loan in the previous owner's name. Therefore you assume zero liability whatsoever because the loan is on their name. Why would someone let you do this?

Simple, they are about to lose their home to foreclosure anyways. In fact, I am about to sign a deal next week using this exact trick and the homeowner is 100% aware of what I am about to do. This is a way to get homes for cheaper than market value without assuming any liability.

John T Reed labels this method as illegal and immoral. However the HUD-1 settlement statement issued by every single title company in the united states has a line that says "amounts taken subject to existing loan". No law in the United States prohibits you from doing this. It is also not immoral to take over a person's house that is about to be loss to foreclosure anyways.

That is a small explanation, but after seeing him make such statements about real estate tricks as well as proving him wrong myself, I will no longer listen to anything he has to say about real estate. My time and money is too precious to be spent listening to someone who bashes 95% of the courses and books he has not ever read or bought. Read his website as well as every single review, ask yourself how many of courses / books he bashes are teh same ones he has bought and read himself.

He hates the fact that Gurus charge thousands of dollars to buy their real estate courses. The biggest problem is that the best education you can ever get in real estate is often times the most expensive. The same people he bashes as "full of shtt" are the same people I would pay 10X the amount I did to buy their courses.