Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just bought (or put in the order to buy) some Jan 09 puts on crox. Its my first time trading options. Did I make a mistake by entering market order? I find etrade generally gets good market prices. Also what percent of your portfolio does it make sense to allocate per options position? Seems like 5% should be the max, right? Or does that decrease with longer dated options because your hypothesis is more likely to be correct and thus youll finish ITM more often (even if you dont get back your full contract buying price)

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahnuld,

A word of advice is NEVER put in market order for an option,I know the most liquid ones you wont lose more than .05,but on a stock like CROX,which I dont beleive has a highly liquid markt,(esp with alot of interest on the PUT side with stock so high)....the MM's will def. screw you at whatever exchage they trade that particular option.The spread alone on these types of illiquid options can be upwards of 20%

It also really has nothing to do with which broker you use(e- trade in your case),because if you are buying the underlying stock for instance,they can give you a better price just from their own inventory.

No broker-dealers carry inventory in the option arena,and they must physically go out and buy/sell it themselves on whatever exchange that particular stocks underlying option trades on

However when playing with options,the CBOE e.g. is ALWAYS going to get the best of it.Also by putting in a M/O for an illiquid option or any option for that matter,and the VIX/premiums are accordingly higher...you will never get the best of it with a market order.

IMO ...put out a "reasonably" priced bid/ask and let it sit there for awhile.Try and have the market come to you.

SF [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]

A word of advice is NEVER put in market order for an option,I know the most liquid ones you wont lose more than .05,but on a stock like CROX,which I dont beleive has a highly liquid markt,(esp with alot of interest on the PUT side with stock so high)....the MM's will def. screw you at whatever exchage they trade that particular option.The spread alone on these types of illiquid options can be upwards of 20%

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. In my experience, you can often instantly shave off .05 or .1 of a price by entering your own limit price. Makes me feel like they're a bunch of damn crooks.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Yeah, I realized right after I put the order in that it was probably a mistake but I was in the shower and couldnt change the order fast enough. I got a decent price though, 15.30 when the current bid and ask is 15.10 and 15.60 so it didnt cost me much if anything in this instance. But I also realized given my opinion of the company it would have made more sense to buy more contracts OOTM, but for my first trade the conservative route probably isnt a bad idea.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/9354/poundja1.png

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OMG, wtf, are those serious...i have to go get an MRI for my foot but i'll back out the implied UK rates given US rates at certain levels for those prices but at first glance they look way off.

be back later.

Barron

EDIT: i just realized why the late maturity contracts are so high, b/c they are being pulled up by the short maturities via arbitrage. i'll dig more into this later but thanks a ton crushin for the post (is this available online instead of just through your image shack?)

[/ QUOTE ]

CrushinFelt,

do you know where i can get Pound denominated libor & euribor quotes? CME only does USD denominated libor & euribor.

i have backed out that the 3mo compound average pound libor rate for december to march must be 5.8823% for the 2.0395 USD/GBP price to be justified on forward pricing grounds.

similarly, the 3mo compound average pound libor rate 6mo forward must be 5.6070% to justify the 2.0334 USD/GBP price

these translate to the following maturities/prices for pound libor:

12/1/2007 to 3/1/2008: 94.1177 i.e. 3 mo, 3 mo forward
3/1/2008 to 6/1/2008: 94.3930 i.e. 3 mo, 6 mo forward

i want to now compare that estimate to the actual priced in pound libor rates. where i can get that? (i've searched the interwebs and came up empty so far)

thanks,
Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Sorry, don't know about that one. I'll look around a bit.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

LIFFE has a Euro denominated, but I can't find a Pound denominated anywhere.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

this might help

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Yeeeeesh, those are high rates.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeeeeesh, those are high rates.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea i think i must be missing something here. i haven't figured out exactly what the arbitrage here would be but there seems to be a gaping one.

according to the USD/GDP futures prices from CME, the implied 3F3 rate (the 3 month rate 3 months from now) is 5.8823%, yet the UK based LIBOR rate above 3F3 rate is 6.1868%. but since one comes from a currency i'm not exactly sure how to extract the arbitrage.

obviously you want to but low sell high so borrow at the 5.8823% rate and invest at the 6.1868% rate, but there is a currency transaction in there somehow that has to be round trip.

i've had some wine and scotch though so i'm probably not best equiped right now to figure it out. i'll try this again tomorrow...seems like there is either a) an explanation as to what i'm missing, or b) a really cool arbitrage opportunity

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

USD/GDP?

Also, yes something definitely feels a little off here and 30 basis points is likely more than just a round trip cost.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
USD/GDP?

Also, yes something definitely feels a little off here and 30 basis points is likely more than just a round trip cost.

[/ QUOTE ]

errr, USD/GBP lol.

so now i've thought about this and i think this is how you have to go about it:

it all depends on whether you can lock in those UK based libor rates today (which i think you can: it implies the UK based libor rate futures price would be 93.8132)

so you short the december, january and february LIBOR futures quoted off CME at 95.2350, 95.4650, and 95.5475 respectively.

you then lock in the december and march GBP futures (CME) at 2.0458USD/GBP in december and round trip back at 2.0395USD/GBP in march.

so now you have borrowed money at US LIBOR, changed it to UK pounds for 3 months.

the final step is then to purchase the 3mo libor quoted above at 93.8132.

this should provide, absent transaction costs, $0.0768 per every $100 invested in 3 months. that is 30bps of annualized return.

so if you do this with $1million, you make a whopping $759.7876 in 3 months without any risk.

but if you took $1million and invested it in dollars at like 4.5% you'd make 11,064.99 lol, so it doesn't look like you'd do this if you had to use your own money.

buuuut, (and i'm not sure how the eurodollar contracts actually function), if you only owe the interest on the $1mil eurodollar contracts and collect the interest on the UK libor contracts while having your pound to dollar liabilities hedged in the futures market at the quoted prices, you would only need to put up the margin in the US & UK libor contracts and the USD/GBP contract.

so how much is that margin? if that margin is 10k total or something like that, then you've just made 7.5979% on your money in 3 months (or 34.03% annualized)

so it looks like an arbitrage to me if you only actually owe the margin

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
you would only need to put up the margin in the US & UK libor contracts and the USD/GBP contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the key right there. Which, quite hilariously, fits right in with the title of "The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread" lol

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you would only need to put up the margin in the US & UK libor contracts and the USD/GBP contract.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the key right there. Which, quite hilariously, fits right in with the title of "The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread" lol

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wow, well that seems like we've found an arbitrage [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

As a quick follow up:

You put up $1,800 in margin per BP Future (which is $1,800 for every 62,500 Pounds according to the contract specs).

You put up $350 in margin for every US Libor contract (which is a $3,000,000 deposit with 1 month to maturity).

I don't know about the UK Libor Swaps.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
As a quick follow up:

You put up $1,800 in margin per BP Future (which is $1,800 for every 62,500 Pounds according to the contract specs).

[/ QUOTE ]

but this nets out since you are long one and short the other. this requires $3600, but if one goes up, the other likely goes down etc.

[ QUOTE ]

You put up $350 in margin for every US Libor contract (which is a $3,000,000 deposit with 1 month to maturity).

[/ QUOTE ]

well here you need the december, jan, and feb contracts that you are short and you actually have to deliver the interest payments of $3886.66, $3702.82, and $3636.78. at the same times, you are getting pound interest rates that are being converted to dollars to pay those down but not at the futures prices.

so how do you actually execute this arb fluidly?

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know about the UK Libor Swaps.

[/ QUOTE ]

well it isn't a swap, it would be the same UK libor futures contract as the eurodollar one, right?

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

seems a very interesting discussion going on, i don't quite understand it but could i also get another discussion going at the same time. basically 2+2 is banned at work but kitco.com forums aren't so ive been reading them a lot at break times and lunch.

2 things im interested in;

i read Jim Roger's article linked from kitco:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...amp;refer=home

do you guys agree?

also, a post from cyclist who is apparently well respected on that forum saying:

[ QUOTE ]
The physical gold will never drop below 680 ,inflation tells you to be fully invested now and for stocks by the first week of December.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry if this sounds i am plugging kitco, i really dont mean to, 2+2 finance forum rocks, just wanted to explain where ive got this from.

also any know good commodity books? basically i want to learn from scratch commodities.

what i'd like to do if i managed to get my ACA i could then try and move over to doing some research at a bank or something for commodities, becuase i find it very interesting so far. just a thought.

thanks if you can continue to help me.

john

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

arghhh, how annoying, igindex don't offer the chinese yuan, im going to have to set up another account somewhere which will let me trade it.

bit annoyed i didnt extend my position on shorting USD/JPY earlier as last few market days have been very good, but just increased it so it is now $660 for every 1 yen swing vs $1. have a stop loss at 120 yen: $1 so $5k = busto.
i want to make it $7k total but ill put the other $2k down in a few days.

also annoying oil's bounceback today, i've been planning if it hit $85 (london crude) i'd go for it but at $87 i'm not convinced from what ive read on forums.

thanks for any thoughts on any of this.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Nothing pops up when I click on that link... I see the links on the left but no story. Also, "cyclist" may be jumping the gun in a lot of people's views. There's no sign of relief for housing and there's still a good amount of worry about consumer spending going into the holidays. So unless he is speculating that housing eases and consumer spending doesn't disappoint, he's probably a little ahead of himself.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

sorry for error in link. this is correct:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...amp;refer=home

thanks for the reply crushinfelt, im trying to establish stop losses which i can stick with (so i am investing not constantly checking prices and changing positions). just larger stop loss = less leverage and i want to try to balance it so im not overly cautious or aggressive.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

That article makes sense and is probably what a majority of people believe is true right now. The US is in a tricky spot with a weakening $ and the need to decrease interest rates. Not to mention the possibility of reserves being sold off.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
As a quick follow up:

You put up $1,800 in margin per BP Future (which is $1,800 for every 62,500 Pounds according to the contract specs).

You put up $350 in margin for every US Libor contract (which is a $3,000,000 deposit with 1 month to maturity).

I don't know about the UK Libor Swaps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is the trade i just wrote up:

______________________
There seems to be a mispricing in the Libor USD/GBP markets. Specifically, the 3mo USD Libor 3mo forward and the 3mo GBP Libor 3mo forward quotes are not consistent with the rates implied by the USD/GBP currency futures. In turn, you can achieve positive returns with an extremely small risk (close to, but not quite, arbitrage) via the following methodology:



1) Short the USD Libor futures for December, January, and February at a 3mo compound rate of 1.127% (equivalent to an average 3mo futures price of 95.4158)

2) Lock in USD/GBP December 3mo Futures at $2.0458/GBP to buy pounds at that rate

a. Lock in return USD/GBP March Futures at $2.0395/GBP to sell pounds at that rate

3) Long the GBP Libor futures for December, January, and February at a 3mo compound rate of 1.512% (equivalent to an average 3mo futures price of 93.8132)

4) (here is the risky part) Use delivered interest payments in GBP to pay the deliverable interest payments in USD for the December, January, and February commitments from 1) above (or, simply reinvest the GBP interest payments you receive and pay the USD deliverable interest payments out of your own pocket).



Assuming exchange rates stay exactly constant (big assumption, and therein lies the risk though it is partially hedged), you would earn $759.7876 per $1million invested. That seems like a tiny 7.5979 quarterly basis point return (30.43 compounded annual basis point return), however, you don’t have to put up the $1million. Instead, you only have to post the margin on the contracts listed above ($350 margin for each USD Libor contract, $1800 margin per GBP futures contract and I can’t find the GBP Libor contract’s margin). So in terms of return on capital invested, it is attractive.



Now, obviously, I could be missing something (i.e. the liquidity might not be there or some other considerations), however, I think the trade is definitely worth considering.

_______________________

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

I'm confused as to why #4 is risky. Payments are guaranteed and yuo've locked in the rates.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused as to why #4 is risky. Payments are guaranteed and yuo've locked in the rates.

[/ QUOTE ]

because you've agree to 1) buy pounds on December 1st and 2) sell pounds on march 1st

but you receive interest payments from the libor contract at the end (or beginning) or each month december, january, and february.

so you have to either 1) move your receipts from GBP to USD during the time to pay the USD libor payments (risky b/c the rates can jump all over the place between december and march) OR 2) pay the USD interest payments out of your own pocket and reinvest the GBP interest payments to move back via the futures contract on march 2008.

so either way you incur some small risk because you can't 100% lock in every single step at this moment.

at least that is how i've understood this transaction. let me know if i've missed something ehre.

thanks,
Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

thoughts on this much appreciated. i feel this could be the final structure of it. what ive done so far is also noted at the end.

here it is:

Savings: 42%

Leveraged Investments: 31% comprising of

Commodities 17.5%: comprising of:
Gold: 10%. 13% stop loss
Gold fund: 2.5%. 20% stop loss
Silver: 2.5%. 15% stop loss
Oil: 2.5%. 20% stop loss

Currency 7.5%:
CNY/USD: 4.5%. stop loss at 8%
JPY/GBD: 3%. stop loss at 8%

Indices: 6%
Hong Kong: 3%. stop loss 30%
India: 3%. stop loss 30%

Other Investments: 27%

Emerging Markets fund (tax free): 5%
Poker Bankroll: 10%
Staking Players: 6%
Money people owe me: 6%


so, is this crazy?

i need to decide what to do with (hopefully) future poker winnings and salary. I guess I'll divide them between savings and leveraged investments, probably about 2:1 in favour of savings.

any thoughts hugely appreciated.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

I like this portfolio a lot actually (assuming that your JPY/GBD(P?) play means you are long the Yen versus the pound).

Curious as to what your 42% savings is sitting in.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

thanks crushinfelt.

yep sorry i always get confused with which way to put the currencies, i am long yen vs £ and long yuan vs $

my 42% savings is currently sitting in HSBC, however, ive already set up my ICICI savings account which has just increased to 6.41% and guarentees to be at least 0.3% above the BofE base rate.

as for what ive done so far:
Gold: $200 per $1. stop loss at 680p
JPY/USD: $200 per 1 yen swing in $1. stop loss about 120p (got to configure correctly
india 50: finally got round to doing this today, annoying ive missed huge gains, but long term i think it's a winner.

i'll hopefully get everything up and running monday/tuesday.

pleased i loaded up from $60 to $200 on gold when it dipped to 750p and in the last few days it's just jumped up to 780p so a very useful $6k profit. though i am determined not to trade any of these and to invest long term instead, only stopping the position when there is a better opportunity elsewhere (i know this'll be hard, but ill try).

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

oh yep, to confirm, when i say 'stop loss' that means if it hits i am busto for that position. do you think i should make any of my stop losses larger? smaller? basically the larger the stop loss, the lower the leverage, so a 20% stop loss = 5 times leverage for example.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

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though i am determined not to trade any of these and to invest long term instead

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't really vibe with leveraged investments.

Long term positions are meant to be able to handle swings so that the long run can actually be reached. Leveraged investments are for finding an opportunity, going after it using leverage to bump up the returns, and eventually getting out and back into more stable positions.

Your leveraging looks reasonable.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
oh yep, to confirm, when i say 'stop loss' that means if it hits i am busto for that position. do you think i should make any of my stop losses larger? smaller? basically the larger the stop loss, the lower the leverage, so a 20% stop loss = 5 times leverage for example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're looking at your stops the wrong way around. Your stop loss should be determined by the market and not how much you can afford to lose. Place your stops at a pre-determined level. That can be at a sensible point in price such as a technical level or as a factor of recent volatility.

Once you decide upon your stop, then you can decide upon your position size based upon how much risk your account will be exposed to should your stop be hit.

Also I'm wondering what your exit strategy is. As Crushinfelt said, leveraging isn't suitable for long term - especiallly with the overnight LIBOR rates applied to spreadbet positions. Spreadbetting is a trading vehicle and your exits should receive more attention than your entries since they are more important.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

I'm a nobody on this forum, but I nonetheless strongly disagree with your decision to buy puts on Crox. There's a strong short interest because everyone assumes that the "ugly plastic shoes" are a fad that will die off soon like Healys. That is simply not the case though IMO.

They've been consistently creating more products, and they now have a few dozen types of shoes as well as apparel and accessories like sunglasses. International sales have been growing at a tremendous rate, and they now account for more than 50% of total sales, even though domestic sales have also been growing at a great rate. The "Beach" and "Caymen" designs are the clog design that people know Crocs for, and even though their sales have been increasing, their proportion of total sales has been decreasing. People are buying their other products, and the reason is that Crocs sells comfort, something that is not likely to go out of style.

Some people cite cheap knock-offs as the eventual demise to Crocs, but Crocs has many things the knock-offs don't. First of all, they have their proprietary closed-cell resin used to make the shoes called Croslite. It is revolutionary and they are incorporating it into apparel as well as their shoes. Furthermore, Crocs has licensing deals with the NFL, MLB, NCAA, NASCAR, Marvel, Disney, etc. that knock-offs don't have. Some people view shoes with their teams logo in the same way people view baseball caps. They like to wear team colors. Also, Crocs is developing into a name-brand that people will pay for.

Furthermore, even IF this company is a fad (which I believe it is not), it would take a great deal of time for the products to fade across the world, meaning that they would seem to have several great quarters left in them even IF they start to fade away.

If you want a high-risk but very high-reward leveraged position, I suggest buying Crocs CALLS, not puts. The company should announce their Q3 earnings pretty soon. I look for perhaps a 5 point runup in anticipation of earnings, follwed up by the company blowing out street expectations and raising Q4 guidance. The management team has a history of raising guidance in a conservative manner, allowing them to get the publicity of raising guidance while still enabling themselves to crush expectations the following quarter. Just because this stock has gained a few hundred percent so far doesn't mean that it doesn't have a few hundred percent left in it. It closed below 68 on Friday, and I believe it should easily clear 100 with room to spare before we hit spring.

I haven't contributed much around here, and the size of my portfolio is probably trivial compared to most here, but those are my thoughts, do what you want with them.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
Leveraged investments are for finding an opportunity, going after it using leverage to bump up the returns, and eventually getting out and back into more stable positions.

[/ QUOTE ]

i understand this, but say you have investment A. priced at $100. you think it is very unlikely to drop to $80. so you leveraged 5 times with a stop loss at $80.

2 years time it is at $170, as you expected. +$70. leveraging cost you 7% annually, costly you $15, so you only made $55. but you leveraged at 5 times, so youve made $275, rather than the $70 you would have.

surely it is better to leverage than not?

[ QUOTE ]
I think you're looking at your stops the wrong way around. Your stop loss should be determined by the market and not how much you can afford to lose. Place your stops at a pre-determined level.

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry i probs didnt explain myself properly, but i try to decide on a stop loss, and then decide how much i am willing to put on it, and then leveraging accordingly. so in that sense i think it makes sense. i think it automatically then makes my portfolio weighted - those with higher volatility, so higher stop losses, are leveraged less.

im a bit annoyed still i havent jumped into silver, oil, hong kong and india before the recent jumps, makes me tempted to wait a bit for a dip, but i cant face trying to time the markets, i just want to buy and hold.

thanks for the replies, helps a lot.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

just put a stop buy on northern rock at 192p, ill sell at 240p or so, stop loss at 130p, $50 per 1p so $3k at risk.

gogogogo northern rock tomorrow.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
i understand this, but say you have investment A. priced at $100. you think it is very unlikely to drop to $80. so you leveraged 5 times with a stop loss at $80.

2 years time it is at $170, as you expected. +$70. leveraging cost you 7% annually, costly you $15, so you only made $55. but you leveraged at 5 times, so youve made $275, rather than the $70 you would have.

surely it is better to leverage than not?


[/ QUOTE ]

You're missing my point. My point is that you should probably try to set a target price to get out. Maybe either adjust your "stop loss" up (just mentally) as the asset pirce goes up or just pick a price and say "if it goes up x% I'm getting out." I would just hate to see something go from 100 to 170 and then back down to 110 or 120 with you having given up a lot of profit.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

ah sorry crushinfelt, i see what you mean. to be honest i would like to come up with such a plan but ill probably 'play it by ear' in that my only investments are all long term trends and when i start reading the good times are over, then ill end the position and look elsewhere (much easier said than done, but ill do my best). the stop losses are more indicative of where ill be getting out becuase the trend is no more.

ive added silver today, it shot up early, dip down a little, and ive bought just now.

also i ended my position in shorting dollar vs GBP, it was more a hedge and but i think i can find a better return in other forex positions.

so far:

spot price gold: $200 per $1 swing
spot price silver: $23 per $1 swing
JPY/USD: $330 per 1 yen swing per $1
Hong Kong index: $1 per 1 point(?) swing (currently about 31,800)
India 50 index: $4 per 1 point(?) swing (currently about 5,900)


and as a short term: $50 per 1p swing in northern rock.

total deposit so far: £12k
current balance: £16.4k

gogogogogoog.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
also i ended my position in shorting dollar vs GBP

[/ QUOTE ]

wp john...wp....fckuckufucukck!!!

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
also i ended my position in shorting dollar vs GBP

[/ QUOTE ]

wp john...wp....fckuckufucukck!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

bad today, probably good over the next 6 months

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

yeah, some donk from BoE or something said rates would likely not be decreased for a while.

this looks like a good time to short GBP? other than JPY or CNY, what would be a good currency to long vs GBP? i can trade most currencies i think.

oil up 5% makes me almost physically ill, though gold at $795 now is awesome.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, some donk from BoE or something said rates would likely not be decreased for a while.

this looks like a good time to short GBP? other than JPY or CNY, what would be a good currency to long vs GBP? i can trade most currencies i think.

oil up 5% makes me almost physically ill, though gold at $795 now is awesome.

[/ QUOTE ]

gold at 900-$950 to me is a short.

USD/GBP is a long now. $2.07 is unsustainable given the likely direction of the interest rate diffs over the next year (and given the state of the relative rate of growth int he 2 economies over the next year)

Barron

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

im going to hang on to gold for the mega long term (like years), hopefully it'll pay off. i am a bit worried how much it has shot up recently, correction likely to come, but i know not to bother trying to time the market, it's impossible.

barron, is there a particular currency you'd long over the coming months? i dont really want to do USD/GBP as i already have JPY/USD so i might as well do JPY/GBP. maybe this would be wiser? although i'd kinda like 2 currency positions on the go to balance.

up £5k now from £12k deposited since i started this a few weeks ago. sole reason has been £100 per $1 swing in gold, which has swung up $50. i also had £30 per $1 at a swing up of $25 but that was eroded by northern rock and JPY/USD recently.

fingers crossed it'll keep going well/not plummet back down to evens or worse.

Re: The Ultimate Leverage Investment Thread
 

Leveraged investing means borrowing to invest. Where does borrowing fit into your plan?

Oh wait... unless you are leveraging other peoples ideas, then I think I get it.