Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB.

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Priest Holmes and Marshall Faulk have had better seasons in the last 10 years alone.

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Jack you are forgetting that 31>27>26 and TD's are the most important statistic, just like HR/RBI is in baseball

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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LT had one of the greatest if not greatest season ever by a RB.

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Priest Holmes and Marshall Faulk have had better seasons in the last 10 years alone.

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Jack you are forgetting that 31>27>26 and TD's are the most important statistic, just like HR/RBI is in baseball

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Don't be silly, everyone knows it's all about hits and wins.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Michael Smith brought up a good point in that article post above (it has also been echoed on these forums). Take away Peyton from Indy, they are probably not even a .500 team. Take away LDT and you have a Chargers team that has nearly the same record.

Nobody has as much responsibility as Peyton does on a football field. He does things that no other player maybe in the history of the NFL could do. As long as he keeps producing the same results, he should be MVP every year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Oh, and it should also be mentioned that Peyton's year was just as good, if not better, than his "record breaking" season. Just because something doesn't break a record doesn't mean it isn't historically great.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Do we really have to have this RB-value discussion again?
I agree w/ the crowd that says the position is fairly 'meh'; but at least this isn't as big of a joke as Alexander last yr.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

LOL @ Manning getting screwed. Again.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Do we really have to have this RB-value discussion again?
I agree w/ the crowd that says the position is fairly 'meh'; but at least this isn't as big of a joke as Alexander last yr.

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Alexander's 05 was reasonably similar to LT in 06, but Peyton was a fair bit weaker(though still really good)

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

as long as ladanian stays off the cover of madden...

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Oh please. Congrats to LT, he deserves it.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Oh please. Congrats to LT, he deserves it.

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If you think he deserved it then you have absolutely no concept of value in football.

Giving him OPOY is fine, whatever. But giving a RB M"V"P is just dumb.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

UCF, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

LT=MVP, easiest choice in years. stop nitpicking, why not get rid of the MVP award and just call it QB of the year award?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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UCF, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

LT=MVP, easiest choice in years. stop nitpicking, why not get rid of the MVP award and just call it QB of the year award?

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Why call it the most VALUABLE player award if you aren't going to give it to the most valuable player? You can't punish QBs because their position is more important. If you want to give him offensive player of the year or coolest statistical performance, fine, but he isn't anywhere NEAR as valuable as Peyton or any "good" QB. If you want an explanation just read back through this thread.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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UCF, please tell me you are being sarcastic.

LT=MVP, easiest choice in years. stop nitpicking, why not get rid of the MVP award and just call it QB of the year award?

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Why call it the most VALUABLE player award if you aren't going to give it to the most valuable player? You can't punish QBs because their position is more important. If you want to give him offensive player of the year or coolest statistical performance, fine, but he isn't anywhere NEAR as valuable as Peyton or any "good" QB. If you want an explanation just read back through this thread.

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The problem is that MVP is a misnamed award. It never has meant most valuable player and never will. So once you guys can get over that and realize that its basically just an offensive player of the year/coolest statistical performance award maybe we can stop having every football thread turn into this stupid argument.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

thank you.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

But isn't that the whole point?

Its fun to say "Hey, look how stupid the AP is! They voted a running back as #2 athlete of the year over a Tennis player who almost went undefeated and voted him MVP when its blatantly obvious that he wasn't actually the most VALUABLE player in the NFL."

I think MVP now = best fantasy football performer.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

To all those who are saying LT's record is not historical because the previous record was set last year, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will stand for at least 15 years.

You know, Assani is right. I love footballoutsiders and I love Manning, but it's really boring talking about football when the only argument you guys ever use is DVOA and DPAR, and then act like there's nothing else to discuss.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Couldn't he break it next year? He didn't play that well in the last 2 games of the year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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To all those who are saying LT's record is not historical because the previous record was set last year, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will stand for at least 15 years.

You know, Assani is right. I love footballoutsiders and I love Manning, but it's really boring talking about football when the only argument you guys ever use is DVOA and DPAR, and then act like there's nothing else to discuss.

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Err, given that the record has been held by three different people over the past 6 years, I hope you aren't serious about that bet.

The assorted people complaining about how the stathead footballl guys want it to be a "Best QB" award, how would you feel about a guard winning? Or a safety? It's not like the award gets distributed evenly as it is.

If the baseball season was only 16 games long and they played once a week, would it be unfair to position players that they'd almost never deserve to win?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Take out Peyton Manning and replace him with, say... Jon Kitna. How many games does this team win?

Take out LT and replace him with, say... Kevan Barlow.

Who's gonna do worse, the Colts or the Chargers?

Remember Jesse Chatman? Jesse looked like a god in San Diego 3 years ago. They waive him, and he doesn't play again.

For the last 3 years, the Chargers have had 4 of the best performing backup running backs. Turner this year, Turner last year, Neal last year, and Chatman in 2003. I'm sure everyone thinks Turner is good... but Chatman? I mean, LT is tremendous, but just like Shaun Alexander last year, don't you think that he depends on that system?

On Indy it's the other way around. The system is built around Peyton Manning. That whole offense is built on Peyton changing the plays, the protection schemes, etc. He *is* the offense, and he's the single best offense in the game.

No team depends on a player more than the Colts depend on Peyton. Every year he's the best QB in the league. What more could you want?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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To all those who are saying LT's record is not historical because the previous record was set last year, I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will stand for at least 15 years.

You know, Assani is right. I love footballoutsiders and I love Manning, but it's really boring talking about football when the only argument you guys ever use is DVOA and DPAR, and then act like there's nothing else to discuss.

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Err, given that the record has been held by three different people over the past 6 years, I hope you aren't serious about that bet.

If the baseball season was only 16 games long and they played once a week, would it be unfair to position players that they'd almost never deserve to win?

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I honestly don't see anyone averaging almost 2 TD's for a season anytime soon.

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The assorted people complaining about how the stathead footballl guys want it to be a "Best QB" award, how would you feel about a guard winning? Or a safety? It's not like the award gets distributed evenly as it is.

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It's really silly to call it an MVP award when by your standards, someone from the same position should win every year. I think this is evidence that the criteria for the award should be something different. I'm not asking for a kicker or a guard to win, but it seems fair to propose that if someone from any of the skill positions is having an incredible statistical year compared either to his counterparts or historically, he probably deserves to win. It makes more sense to me that this would be the purpose of the award.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Couldn't he break it next year? He didn't play that well in the last 2 games of the year.

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He's gotten pretty heavy work the past 3 years so I doubt he breaks it. I don't think he will break down as quickly as some other RBs, but this will almost certainly be his peak

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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No team depends on a player more than the Colts depend on Peyton. Every year he's the best QB in the league. What more could you want?

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Nothing. I root for Manning and think he is the best player in football. I've been pleasantly surprised that the media has given him a lot of praise this year and has stopped blaming him for "not being able to win the big game."

That has nothing to do with my point though.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Well, then... what is your point? Because you didn't exactly make one.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Well, then... what is your point? Because you didn't exactly make one.

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Determining MVP awards using DVOA is wrong because a QB would win every year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

It was broken TWICE in the last 3 years. Yet it won't happen in 15 years. Give me a break. It'll probally be broken again soon enough, maybe a couple of times. You act like this is the home run record or something that hasn't been broken or approached often. LT has had 31 tds, 20 tds and 18 the last 3. SA before this year had 28, 20, 16, 18 (total TDs), Holmes had 24 27 in 2 consecutive years.

Faulk had 26, 21 in 2 consecutive years. This record can be broken.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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It was broken TWICE in the last 3 years. Yet it won't happen in 15 years. Give me a break. It'll probally be broken again soon enough, maybe a couple of times. You act like this is the home run record or something that hasn't been broken or approached often. LT has had 31 tds, 20 tds and 18 the last 3. SA before this year had 28, 20, 16, 18 (total TDs), Holmes had 24 27 in 2 consecutive years.

Faulk had 26, 21 in 2 consecutive years. This record can be broken.

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Scoring doesn't really change much over the years, so there has to be a peak with these types of records. I think we've reached it.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Well, then... what is your point? Because you didn't exactly make one.

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Determining MVP awards using DVOA is wrong because a QB would win every year.

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As it is, the only people who win it are QBs and RBs. The last guy to win the AP MVP that wasn't either was LT.

Hell, only 15 RBs have won it in history. 31 have won it, including that split vote between Peyton and McNair. It seems to me that the writers already acknowledge that QBs are about twice as valuable, but only voted for LT because he broke a year old record. Wheeeee.

Edit: Jamal Lewis didn't even win it when he rushed for 2000 yards.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Why? I don't understand your reasoning at all. You just think we've reached it because, because. Honestly, if LT had to play harder the last 2 games he could have had 35+. And your saying with probally a similar team and maybe an improved QB, he can't possibly do this again? I don't understand why this is the peak? The # of TDS from the top guy in the league lately seems to be growing each year. I guess it could be the peak, but who knows. I don't think just after this year you can say "well, that's as high as it'll go."

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Sorry for keeping this going as it is obviously going in circles, but can anyone actually try and give me an argument that LDT was actually MORE VALUABLE then Peyton this year? Does anyone even believe that?

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

CAUSE HE SCORED 31 TDS MAN, YOU KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS. 31 TDS, MOST IMPORTANT STAT IS TDS. TDS, TDS, TDS.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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CAUSE HE SCORED 31 TDS MAN, YOU KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS. 31 TDS, MOST IMPORTANT STAT IS TDS. TDS, TDS, TDS.

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But Peyton Manning scored 35!

Plus, Peyton scored a TD every 5.25 rushes, LDT only scored one every 12.4...

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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As it is, the only people who win it are QBs and RBs. The last guy to win the AP MVP that wasn't either was LT.


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Yes, this is dumb too. The problem is that most current defensive stats are even worse measures of value than offensive stats, and at least recently I don't recall a WR having any kind of spectacular year.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Steve Smith last year had a good argument for being MVP, I suppose, but he was pretty easily shut down by the Seahawks for being so valuable.

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You're an idiot. Find me a winning team without a good RB and a stellar QB.

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Are you joking??

Saints Pats Jets Colts for starters.

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pats have good running backs and a stellar qb....

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

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Oh please. Congrats to LT, he deserves it.

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If you think he deserved it then you have absolutely no concept of value in football.

Giving him OPOY is fine, whatever. But giving a RB M"V"P is just dumb.

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I don't know about that. I'm as big a stat-head pimp as you're going to find on this board, but I think players in other positions should be in the mix -- the award is too boring otherwise. If a RB or WR (or, ideally, a LB or LT or FS) is playing better than anyone else at his position to an historic degree, he should be in the MVP discussion, and should have a good chance of winning it if no one from another position has a similar degree of separation from his peers.

Last year, for example, I could have seen voting for Manning, Steve Smith, or Walter Jones. Adrian Wilson would get down-ballot consideration (if such a thing existed in the NFL). I'd probably have voted for Steve Hutchinson before Shaun Alexander.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

So basically everyone agrees that they should just quit calling it "MVP" and call it "Player of the Year" so it can be fun and accurate at the same time? Because no matter how you argue it, if you are going to call it Most Valuable Player, it is very very wrong to not give it to Peyton.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

The MVP award has nothing to do with who was the most valuable player to his team.

if this were not the case then the winner is easily Drew Brees...not Peyton

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

I'm a Saints fan and I disagree. Not only was Peyton better in the numbers, the Colts O was better than the Saints O, and he's more responsible for that offense than anyone is to any offense.

Re: LT AP\'s MVP
 

You don't think peyton could have done a better job than brees with that saints team?