Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

kos you can argue all you want that accepting a five-year offer from the sox is dumb on cabrera's part, but it's very common and there's no reason to think he wouldn't be willing to listen to the offer, so it's kind of a moot point. players do it all the time. clearly most agents and GM's in baseball disagree with you (as well as kyleb) so i am going to go with them here.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
A 2+1 deal is effectively lol-worthy. If he wants to do that, then there's no reason to accept an extension, period. That would piss off the Marlins front office, but who cares about them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really arguing that I think it's best for him to go year to year until he hits the market after 2009, though I don't think a 2+1 is all that bad for him because he's so young.

Personally, I think the 2+3 just makes no sense for him at all. If he gets 8 years at 30, he'll get 10 years at 28, and the money will basically be the same when you factor in inflation.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
kos you can argue all you want that accepting a five-year offer from the sox is dumb on cabrera's part, but it's very common and there's no reason to think he wouldn't be willing to listen to the offer, so it's kind of a moot point. players do it all the time. clearly most agents and GM's in baseball disagree with you (as well as kyleb) so i am going to go with them here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot think of a single player who has ever bought out three years of free agency so he could hit the market at 30 instead of hitting it at 27.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
of course they would sign him long-term. and they'd probably be able to get a better deal now, when he has two years left of arb, than they would if he hit the FA market.

people who are saying 'it's just not worth it...' ... are you serious? the guy is one of the top power hitters in the game, he's just entering his prime, and the sox are in need of a big RH bat to replace manny. if they don't get it here, where would they get it?

people talking about how much it would cost vs. the a-rod or lowell options: you do realize that cabrera is young, and will actually end up earning his paycheck over the life of this deal, unlike the other two, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

The argument (at least from me) is that he might flat out refuse to sign a deal because he wants to hit the open market. Obviously, I (Tribe fan) make the deal if I can lock him up, but I don't think it's a given that he'd just instantly sign an eight year deal tomorrow.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he projected to be good enough to stay at 3rd I'd love to see someone other than Casey at the hot corner. The Indians have some pieces to do it with as well, Adam Miller, Ben Francisco, Andy Marte, two out of those three plus a cheap pitcher like Sowers would be a pretty good package from the Marlins' viewpoint of talent and long term control of costs.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he projected to be good enough to stay at 3rd I'd love to see someone other than Casey at the hot corner. The Indians have some pieces to do it with as well, Adam Miller, Ben Francisco, Andy Marte, two out of those three plus a cheap pitcher like Sowers would be a pretty good package from the Marlins' viewpoint of talent and long term control of costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Andy Marte, eh?

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9...notwantvf4.jpg

Also, the Red Sox counter with Clay Buchholz + X and the Dodgers fork over Kershaw + X, and our package looks like [censored]. Adam Miller is plagued with injury problems. Obviously I'd like to see Cabrera in Cleveland, but they don't have the money nor the talent to trade for him.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he projected to be good enough to stay at 3rd I'd love to see someone other than Casey at the hot corner. The Indians have some pieces to do it with as well, Adam Miller, Ben Francisco, Andy Marte, two out of those three plus a cheap pitcher like Sowers would be a pretty good package from the Marlins' viewpoint of talent and long term control of costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overrating their value. My guess is a Tribe package would have to include Jhonny/Asdrubal, FGutz/Garko, Adam Miller, and Laffey. That's a lot to pay, and even if he would sign a long-term deal with us, I don't think it's a Shapiro-style move.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he gets 8 years at 30, he'll get 10 years at 28.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be sure this is right?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he gets 8 years at 30, he'll get 10 years at 28.

[/ QUOTE ]

How can you be sure this is right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously can't be sure, but this really isn't that crazy of an assumption.

I still can't think of any player EVER who has accepted a 2+3 deal over 2+ free agency. The examples you and NT are referring to are pre-arb deals like we give our kids after 1-2 years in the majors.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kos you can argue all you want that accepting a five-year offer from the sox is dumb on cabrera's part, but it's very common and there's no reason to think he wouldn't be willing to listen to the offer, so it's kind of a moot point. players do it all the time. clearly most agents and GM's in baseball disagree with you (as well as kyleb) so i am going to go with them here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot think of a single player who has ever bought out three years of free agency so he could hit the market at 30 instead of hitting it at 27.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't Beckett just sign an extension that has him hitting FA at 31 instead of 28? Or something roughly in that area? It happens a lot.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
kos you can argue all you want that accepting a five-year offer from the sox is dumb on cabrera's part, but it's very common and there's no reason to think he wouldn't be willing to listen to the offer, so it's kind of a moot point. players do it all the time. clearly most agents and GM's in baseball disagree with you (as well as kyleb) so i am going to go with them here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I cannot think of a single player who has ever bought out three years of free agency so he could hit the market at 30 instead of hitting it at 27.

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't Beckett just sign an extension that has him hitting FA at 31 instead of 28? Or something roughly in that area? It happens a lot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Beckett was only 26, not almost 28...I guess he hits the market at 30, so that counts. But still, these deals are extremely rare. Most players either look to hit the market ASAP or get locked up when it's available so they have security.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

lol @ Clarkmeister deleting the "I'M GONNA BEAT YOU UP" posts by Toro.

Toro: 95% of the forum does this when you post:

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3121/picardso3.jpg

Most of them don't say anything and just think you're stupid. However, I let you know that you are dumb so that maybe you could improve on your ridiculous positions (for example, "that kid has it in his eyes, you can see it") and then people wouldn't think of you as a dumb Red Sox homer.

In a way, I'm doing you a service.

P.S. 10k fight yo

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

As I said, you're an ass.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

My friend, I never denied that.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

he's right toro, your baseball analysis is garbage and you don't listen to facts. calling people dumb is one of the only self-policing strategies this forum has. when it happens to you like every time you post you might want to consider that it has something to do with YOU and not everyone else.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
My friend, I never denied that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you didn't, makes it all the more pathetic.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My friend, I never denied that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you didn't, makes it all the more pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I find it one of my more endearing qualities.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
he's right toro, your baseball analysis is garbage and you don't listen to facts. calling people dumb is one of the only self-policing strategies this forum has. when it happens to you like every time you post you might want to consider that it has something to do with YOU and not everyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're full of crap NT. Read the whole thread. It's split on whether it's worth it to go for Cabrera.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Whether or not you support picking up Cabrera is immaterial. The reasons you stated on why the Red Sox should not do it are stupid.

Here, let me help you:

[ QUOTE ]
I prefer that the Sox keep and play their top prospects for cost control and use that extra money to buy Free Agents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he projected to be good enough to stay at 3rd I'd love to see someone other than Casey at the hot corner. The Indians have some pieces to do it with as well, Adam Miller, Ben Francisco, Andy Marte, two out of those three plus a cheap pitcher like Sowers would be a pretty good package from the Marlins' viewpoint of talent and long term control of costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overrating their value. My guess is a Tribe package would have to include Jhonny/Asdrubal, FGutz/Garko, Adam Miller, and Laffey. That's a lot to pay, and even if he would sign a long-term deal with us, I don't think it's a Shapiro-style move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I am, I basically only follow the Tribe. Do the Marlins need a catcher, looking at their roster it appears so unless they have a good prospect. Kelly Shoppach, Marte, Laffy/Sowers for the win?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

ANDY MARTE

DO

NOT

WANT.

It's just not gonna cut it.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

It's hopeless arguing with you. I give up.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
he's right toro, your baseball analysis is garbage and you don't listen to facts. calling people dumb is one of the only self-policing strategies this forum has. when it happens to you like every time you post you might want to consider that it has something to do with YOU and not everyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're full of crap NT. Read the whole thread. It's split on whether it's worth it to go for Cabrera.

[/ QUOTE ]

so the fact that other people are dumb is supposed to make you look better?

of course it's worth it to go after cabrera. any time a guy like that is available you at least ask and see what it would take. if 'what it would take' means ellsbury, masterson and a prospect not named clay buchholz, and cabrera will sign a five year deal, we'd be idiots not to do it. idiots. retards. complete imbeciles.

pedroia
youkilis
ortiz
manny
cabrera
drew
tek
crisp
lugo

beckett
dice-k
buchholz
lester
schilling

with paps, oki and MDC out of the pen.

wtfffffff not even fair. and the majority of those guys are locked up for the next 3-4 years. so sick.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

You miss the whole point. It's not nice to call people stupid. If you have good arguments you don't have to resort to insults to make your points.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You miss the whole point. It's not nice to call people stupid. If you have good arguments you don't have to resort to insults to make your points.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but if crappy posters never listen to reason and keep insisting on making the same dumb arguments, it gets old real quick. i have explained about five times in this thread why any team should be THRILLED to get cabrera and i haven't seen you read this posts and go 'ok my bad.'

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

If there is any chance that
Lester/Ellsbury/Guy who isn't Buchholz can net Cabrera, I think the Sox pretty much have to do it. Lester is a nice story and all but he really isn't that good of a pitcher. I would love to hold on to Ellsbury but we have Coco and Cabrera is only 24. The cost isn't that bad since Manny will probably be gone before too long and so will Schilling.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My friend, I never denied that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know you didn't, makes it all the more pathetic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? I find it one of my more endearing qualities.

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

[homer]Also Travis Snider + Marcum + Someone else for Cabrera[/homer]

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

So we all march in lock step and then there's no discussion at all. I believe you made your original post to generate a little discussion? All I'm saying is why can't it be civil?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[homer]Also Travis Snider + Marcum + Someone else for Cabrera[/homer]

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be totally plausible.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]


pedroia
youkilis
ortiz
cabrera
manny
drew
tek
crisp
lugo


[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed order.

Also, Lugo would need to be replaced... he is an embarrassment to that lineup.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Also, more homer wishing:
Garza/Morales/Tolbert

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[homer]Also Travis Snider + Marcum + Someone else for Cabrera[/homer]

[/ QUOTE ]

That would be totally plausible.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think they would need to add something like Hill or Litsch. I don't think Florida would want Thigpen or Lind enough. I guess we would than need to try and trade Glaus/Thomas/Overbay for something.
Also Jays with Cabrera are probably a playoff team imo.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Snider is a highly regarded prospect for sure, but Snider/Marcum/Hill seems like too much.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

did someone delete a totally benign post of mine in this thread

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]


Also, Lugo would need to be replaced... he is an embarrassment to that lineup.

[/ QUOTE ]

blah. if he continues to bounce back as he did late last season and during the playoffs, and continues to play good defense, there is really no reason he can't be a solid #9 hitter for this team.

basically if he bounces back to anything resembling his career norms / projections he will be fine. yeah they overpaid for him a bit but whatever, not so much that we need to eat his salary just to bring in someone who is probably only marginally better.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
So we all march in lock step and then there's no discussion at all. I believe you made your original post to generate a little discussion? All I'm saying is why can't it be civil?

[/ QUOTE ]

and all i'm saying is why can't it be at least vaguely lucid and informed?

the rest of us are discussing what would be a fair price for him and are mostly in the same ballpark. you are saying 'too rich for my blood, i want to keep my rookies!' to an arb-eligible stud who costs less than most of the other viable CI options on the market.

let me guess, were you advocating bringing lowell back in the other thread?

there is a difference between marching in lock step and being on the same planet. right now you are on planet 'please god hire Toro as the yankees GM' and the rest of us are on planet Earth.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

Toro is right. Not in regards to Cabrera, but in regards to you guys being more civil. You'd think you'd take the hint from a block of 10-20 posts being deleted, but I guess not.

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

i'm not trying to be uppity here, but the posts that got deleted (there were like 8 of them) were ones where he called a guy an ass and told him he was going to kick his ass.

so, civility what?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm not trying to be uppity here, but the posts that got deleted (there were like 8 of them) were ones where he called a guy an ass and told him he was going to kick his ass.

so, civility what?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is true, it would also be wise of him to take his own advice, back to baseball now though?

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

yessir

Re: Heyman: Miggy is on the block.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If he projected to be good enough to stay at 3rd I'd love to see someone other than Casey at the hot corner. The Indians have some pieces to do it with as well, Adam Miller, Ben Francisco, Andy Marte, two out of those three plus a cheap pitcher like Sowers would be a pretty good package from the Marlins' viewpoint of talent and long term control of costs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're overrating their value. My guess is a Tribe package would have to include Jhonny/Asdrubal, FGutz/Garko, Adam Miller, and Laffey. That's a lot to pay, and even if he would sign a long-term deal with us, I don't think it's a Shapiro-style move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I am, I basically only follow the Tribe. Do the Marlins need a catcher, looking at their roster it appears so unless they have a good prospect. Kelly Shoppach, Marte, Laffy/Sowers for the win?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sowers and Marte basically have no trade value right now. Laffey might (TBH, I have no idea how he is perceived outside of Cleveland circles), but he's probably more valuable to us since he's very under-the-radar solid...Shoppach, too, since he can spell Vic and basically be a half starter/half backup.

The problem with us putting together a package like that is that our good, valuable players are all major leaguers. The guys people will want are already contributing, and they're cheap, so they probably aren't moving. Miggy isn't a good fit for us anyway in terms of money, but in general, I wouldn't count on us making any "big" trades like that.

(I will, however, continue to hope that Garko gets traded while his value is fairly high.)