Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

i've been pro since june inasmuch as i have no intention of looking for a job while poker remains as profitable as it currently stands. i typically log about 100k hands a month which i guess requires 30-40 hrs a week of my time.

as far as sleep scheduling goes i seem to work on a 26-28 hour daily cycle which means i get around the clock every 8-9 days and have the joys of waking up at 6am, 9am, midday, 3pm, 5pm, 8pm, etc through the week. this is purely because i sleep until i wake up with no external influences such as alarms. i am getting a little fed up of it as i often see little to no daylight as a consequence. the effects on social activity are obvious.

i have up until now cashed out infrequently which i regret since it has allowed me to blow large sums while drunk (this stands as my number one leak at present) and once i rebuild a sufficient roll for my regular games i intend to cash out a fixed amount on a weekly basis to set a habit and supplement those cashouts semi-regularly with additional withdrawals if i hit a good spell.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

it's amazing how the first reply to an OP can really set the tone for a thread. someone could have easily mocked OP for asking a question that has been done 100 times before, but instead skier wrote a really good response and now we have a quality thread.

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but in reality, the answer is truly what you make of it. If you keep a good sleep schedule that lines up with other things you would like to do with your life (I think this is very crucial) then it doesn't have to [censored] with your schedule. For poker playing at night is obviously best but when you find yourself needing to do something or buy something at a store and you get up at 8pm, you gotta do something about it. This causes you to move your schedule, or if you are visiting someone you have to flip right around. Constantly changing your schedule leads to lost days and many days of being tired and adjusting.

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this is bang on. i spend about as much energy just trying to balance my life as i do playing poker, especially now that i have started coaching. but it's completely necessary to do so, especially as you get further down the track.

i have been playing for a living/gaming hardcore for 5+ years now and as you get just a little older it becomes more and more clear that it won't matter how much money you end up making or how many people think you're a great player - if your entire life consists of spending time alone while the real world is asleep and you never get anything done IRL, you will not be happy.

it's fine/standard to go into sick grindermode for a while when you're young and obsessed with getting better, but it's not sustainable as a lifestyle when you move into genuinely playing for a living, and having a balance to your life becomes increasingly important.

personally i am quite content with the numerous facets of my life and the balance i have on paper, but i still really, really struggle with the sleep thing.

totally agree with what skier said about waking up too late to go run errands or do normal IRL stuff and how that can make you feel really alienated... so now i often tend to just stay up until the next day and do whatever i need to do then (whether it's getting a bunch of things done i've let slip for a few days, or catching up with a friend i havent seen for a while), but this is where the lost days thing comes in, and i'm sure i'm taking years off my life with all of this.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

i don't understand it when people imply that it's harder to have a social life playing poker than working a real job. supporting yourself via poker requires less hours and provides more flexibility.

op, one thing to keep in mind that i don't think has been mentioned is the importance of exercise. this applies to anything, i think, and not just poker, but it's no coincidence that guys like ivey and antonius keep themselves in such good shape. i'm planning to do the poker thing for a while after graduation and will probably put myself on a schedule in which i work out for an hour or two every day prior to playing a session.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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i don't understand it when people imply that it's harder to have a social life playing poker than working a real job.

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the best times to play often coincide with other people's social time.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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i don't understand it when people imply that it's harder to have a social life playing poker than working a real job.

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i'm planning to do the poker thing for a while after graduation

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yeah. it's a lot different when you don't have an enforced structure to your life. it's easy to theorise about still keeping a normal healthy well adjusted couple of hrs of poker/voluntarily structure the rest of your day in a healthy way even though you don't have to type deal, but in reality after months on end of setting your own hours and being able to do whatever you damn well feel like, and usually pulling in truly sick amounts of money in the process because you don't have to focus on other things as much, things change a bit.

i exercise a lot play in band have gf etc, but it's still hard to keep a normal existence, especially because even if you have a lot of spare time, other people usually don't - they can only socialise during certain days/hours of the week, in which time you could be in any sort of mindset because your life is so open-ended. so even when you do see people, maybe they are exhausted from a hard day of work whereas you've just woken up from losing $5000 the night before. this is why i'm in the stay in school camp even though i didn't myself.

i mean, if you can keep a normal sleeping pattern and set your life to a rough schedule even after playing for a living for 6 months or a year then that's awesome, but it can be tough.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

semi pro here with full time 50-60 hour week day job.
play around 35k hands a month 12 tabling.
hourly rate of around 300-400hr.
sleep schedule is fairly normal
social life is non existant but i am typically antisocial and a loner anyways. (i generally dont like people)
i dont pay myself with poker winnings, every dollar is invested for retirement.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't understand it when people imply that it's harder to have a social life playing poker than working a real job. supporting yourself via poker requires less hours and provides more flexibility.

op, one thing to keep in mind that i don't think has been mentioned is the importance of exercise. this applies to anything, i think, and not just poker, but it's no coincidence that guys like ivey and antonius keep themselves in such good shape. i'm planning to do the poker thing for a while after graduation and will probably put myself on a schedule in which i work out for an hour or two every day prior to playing a session.

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tannen, i think one of the problems with the social life thing is that alot of people are going to new places but bc poker is so unstructured it is harder to make friends then if say, u got a job with Merrill and you went out for drinks with all your other fellow analyst for instance

so, on top of the lack on an institution thing, there is the backwardsness of your life that will, (often) despite your best efforts, not conveniently match up with everyone else's

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

Sleep schedule is non exsistant. I'd love to get up by 11:30 everyday but it doesn't happen.

Play about 40 hours a week.

Make about nothing because I'm on permatilt. Make more then $100 & less then $200/hr In the last week I've played 3/6LHE, 5/10 2-73D & HORSE, 10/20Razz, 30/60 Stud8, $200 HORSE tournies, 1/2 NLHE & PLO, & 2/4 Uncapped Buy-in NLHE & PLO with 1500+ effective stacks. I've got range. Typically play 1/2 & 2/4NLHE though. Between 4-9 tables depending on what I'm playing and how hard I feel like paying attention.
75k hands a month?

Social life is kind of non-existant at the moment since I just moved across the country and you don't meet people as quickly as you would if you were in school or @ a real job. I also kind of moved so I could have a lot of alone time and focus on getting my stuff together since I had become kind of a mess thanks to the poker lifestyle. Not that it was it's fault I'm just young and immature. A lot of money, nothing but freetime, and a lot of friends doesn't make for the most promising future for someone out to just have fun.
I moved because I realized I wouldn't be able to discipline myself in that environment. Prior my social was nothing but helped by flexibility poker allowed.

I spend ridiculous amounts of money on whatever whenever. Actually spent more then I made year and took it out of my bankroll. Don't do that.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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i don't understand it when people imply that it's harder to have a social life playing poker than working a real job. supporting yourself via poker requires less hours and provides more flexibility.

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usually at a normal job youre somewhere not home, working with and interacting with other ppl. you make friends at work, meet girls, meet friends of work friends, etc. etc.

hard to do that when your "job" is sitting at home alone in front of a computer screen

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

[ QUOTE ]
i feel like it has definitely affected my social life. its hard to relate to your college friends when you are making a lot of money and dont really have any commitments, its very unusual to say the least. i try to hang out with friends from time to time, but i feel like i just get along better with poker players who can relate to my own situation.

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so so true, I feel so akward talking about... life... its like im bragging when im talking about my latest purchase or my latest trip - I have no idea if they see it that way, but that's how I feel. I mean, obviously people brag about the TV they are getting and how they saved up for it and that's cool, but when I'm talking about the latest thing I got, it's like the latest in a string of large purchases or like they know it didn't take me long to get it or whatever.

Or like, talking about work or life in general can be hard too. Talking about the great job they have lined up for the summer that they might make 15k at and like sure I can talk about it, but it's really awkward when chances are I might have won (or lost) that amount the night before.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

I'm not a full time Pro, I work 8 hour daytime just like all my friends (08.00-16.00), I try to fit in 2 hours of poker daily for 14-18 hours per week.
I normally play 400NL/600NL (4-5 tables) for about 6 PTBB, this usually sums up to 25-30K hands per month for a NET ranging from 2-3000$ up to 10K$ on a good month.
Since I'm not fully dependant on the money as I already have a decent salary I dont cash out but keep it to build my BR so I can move up to 1000NL in a few months with 40-50 buyins.

/Cooper

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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[ QUOTE ]
i feel like it has definitely affected my social life. its hard to relate to your college friends when you are making a lot of money and dont really have any commitments, its very unusual to say the least. i try to hang out with friends from time to time, but i feel like i just get along better with poker players who can relate to my own situation.

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so so true, I feel so akward talking about... life... its like im bragging when im talking about my latest purchase or my latest trip - I have no idea if they see it that way, but that's how I feel. I mean, obviously people brag about the TV they are getting and how they saved up for it and that's cool, but when I'm talking about the latest thing I got, it's like the latest in a string of large purchases or like they know it didn't take me long to get it or whatever.

Or like, talking about work or life in general can be hard too. Talking about the great job they have lined up for the summer that they might make 15k at and like sure I can talk about it, but it's really awkward when chances are I might have won (or lost) that amount the night before.

[/ QUOTE ]

we've had threads before where it became apparent how different income levels are in different areas of the world/country.

I am sure for some online pros who make say, 300k+ a year, this isn't a ton of money. but in a lot of areas 100k is a lot of money, so it can be very uncomfortable when everyone your friends with or know makes so little compared to you, yet they are very happy with their lives.

stuff I might buy on a whim are items that pretty much everyone i know would have to save up/set aside money for. I refuse to feel bad/guilty over this as Ive gone through a lot to get to where I'm at- yet sometimes its tough.

also when you tell people your a pro, and they know you make good money doing it- they assume its very easy because you sit @ home on the computer and play a card game. meanwhile you can't explain or tell them that in the past week you've lost more than their annual income.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

- How many hours of cash game play do you guys (and gals) try to log every week ?

I try to play as much as I can! From the hour I get up (around 11) to the hour my girlfriend comes home from her work (around 6). And I eat/freshen up for like 1 hour. So I play like 5-6h's per day. Obv w/ the occasional break for events, shopping, sports etc.

- How has playing cash games affected your sleeping cycles ? How has it affected the social aspect of your life?

I sleep waaaaaay more now then when I studied. I get 9h sleep almost every night.

- What kind of $ / hour are some of you maintaining ? (please mention stake and # of tables played)

Not a clue, playing from 3/6 to 10/20, mainly 5/10 though. Never had a losing month so far. I can add that I aim for 5ptbb, I can only achieve this at 3/6 so far though.

- How do you guys pay yourself? Do you do a fix amount of $ per week ? Do you tell yourselves '' i will withdraw X$ when my bankroll reaches X$ ''

If I need cash, I cash out some... =)

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

Wow, this thread really delivers. Thanks to all for your replies.

Few points id like to make:

- i do keep in shape, currently playing ultimate frisbee once a week, going to do join another weekly league (frisbee or soccer most likely) so i get to socialize/excercise all at once...i also plan on doing a lot of snowboarding this winter. I also do either pushups / chinups or ab work on the daily.

- I feel really bad talking about what i do now... at first, I was honest with my friends. THey would ask 'how is poker' and i would tell them. But then I feel bad saying i made more friday night then they are going to make in 2weeks of work :/ I would also tell them if i lost, but most people dont understand when i say i lost 1k last night ... usually get some speeches about gambling and how its so wrong to lose 1k in a night , to be careful etc.

So now, when I meet people and they ask what I do I will tell them im a stock broker. I sorta am, my stock is my poker-skill and i am betting on it.

Past few weeks I have been reserving 1 night of the weekend to partying/drinking while the other is reserved to pwn donks who have been partying/drinking.


Thanks for all the comments, i will update when i hit 100k hands [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i feel like it has definitely affected my social life. its hard to relate to your college friends when you are making a lot of money and dont really have any commitments, its very unusual to say the least. i try to hang out with friends from time to time, but i feel like i just get along better with poker players who can relate to my own situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

so so true, I feel so akward talking about... life... its like im bragging when im talking about my latest purchase or my latest trip - I have no idea if they see it that way, but that's how I feel. I mean, obviously people brag about the TV they are getting and how they saved up for it and that's cool, but when I'm talking about the latest thing I got, it's like the latest in a string of large purchases or like they know it didn't take me long to get it or whatever.

Or like, talking about work or life in general can be hard too. Talking about the great job they have lined up for the summer that they might make 15k at and like sure I can talk about it, but it's really awkward when chances are I might have won (or lost) that amount the night before.

[/ QUOTE ]

we've had threads before where it became apparent how different income levels are in different areas of the world/country.

I am sure for some online pros who make say, 300k+ a year, this isn't a ton of money. but in a lot of areas 100k is a lot of money, so it can be very uncomfortable when everyone your friends with or know makes so little compared to you, yet they are very happy with their lives.

stuff I might buy on a whim are items that pretty much everyone i know would have to save up/set aside money for. I refuse to feel bad/guilty over this as Ive gone through a lot to get to where I'm at- yet sometimes its tough.

also when you tell people your a pro, and they know you make good money doing it- they assume its very easy because you sit @ home on the computer and play a card game. meanwhile you can't explain or tell them that in the past week you've lost more than their annual income.

[/ QUOTE ]

its funny how alike we are lol.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

Good thread!

I play poker only in spare time. I work 40 h a week. I have 6 years at university and have a very attractive job that is ok but not exciting.

I try to play 15000 hands a month mostly 4 tabling. I have slowly moved up levels since I started playing cash games 1 year ago and am now beating 400NL for 4-5 PTbb which means about 150 dollars an hour and about 5000 dollars a month on AVERAGE. I have had only 1 break even month ever.

My social life pretty much the same as before but I miss some more spare time. I work out less and dont watch TV anymore. Girlfriend complains a little but it works out ok. Ive got ZERO new friends by playing poker.

I cash out a little now and then which I spend on holidays, buying a new computer etc. Mostly building my bankroll.

My goal is to consistently beat 1000NL. I dont have any desire to be a high stakes player now but who knows...

I make more by playing poker 10 hours a weak than my fulltime job, which doesnt bother me since I really want something else to do also. I never talk about poker to people at work or with my family, its kind of tabu. I have a few friends that play, but noone professionaly.

Im pretty sure I would have quit job if I was uneducated and the job really bored me. I WILL HOWEVER strongly recommend not doing it before you beat 1000 NL over a big sample and you have a really big bankroll. By having a job and steady income its so much easier to handle the swings.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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My man, I just keep it cool and roll wit it.

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I like how you couch your thoughts in italics, as if the surface reflecting them is wrinkled by the phantasm of a soft breeze from wonderland. [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

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Balancing school and poker is tough. Thing holding me back from going pro, I would probably become more alienated and lose a lot of important social interaction. It does frustrate me that dumber people are doing better then me in school. I am still doing okay, but I realize a mediocre 3.0-3.5 gpa, from a [censored] university is never going to land me anything ideal in the future.


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Your gpa helps you get your first job and that's it. After you work for a couple years no one will ever ask you what your gpa was.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

From reading this thread I a few thoughts, not of which will probably run together in any sensible order:

- You live in Canada, and because you are talking about snowboarding in November there is a good chance it is western Canada. This is ideal for someone that wants to maintain resemblance of a normal life. Why? Party Poker. Peak hours at party poker are like noon-6pm MST. Since I've moved to Calgary, I love that I can play the majority of my hours during the afternoon and then do a later night session if I feel like it. Many of you Americans could do this as well, playing some of the euro sites.

-social life: Having just moved to a new city, this is one thing that is a struggle. I've joined a couple hockey teams, but all that's going to do is maybe meet me a couple drinking buddies or so. But most the guys are married.

You certainly don't have an easy social network like you would with a real job or when you are in school. So, you have to actively search out new things to do. I'm constantly looking for interesting activities that are going on (festivals, shows, etc). I went to a professional bull riding competition a couple weeks ago lol. Unfortunately, I don't have a broad range of interests so I haven't done much. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But, I am going to be taking an avalanche course in the new year and will be looking for other like minded activities to find people that have similar interests.

-age: I think there are pros and cons to be a young internet player (I am not one, 29). Being young means you have lots of flexibility, and I high tolerance for risk. If you screw up you can easily explain away your year or two of a poker pro as an experience builder. You can also go back to school and still be young when you graduate.

However, all your friends are young too. At this point in their lives, they are not settle in their careers. Many work service industry jobs, and have strange work schedule themselves. So, sitting in Mon-Friday playing poker every night is more anti-social because often there is mid week stuff going on.

I, on the other hand, am old. People that I know are mostly settled in their careers and most have mon-fri 9-5 jobs. So, not doing anything social mon-fri is completely normal. I just make sure I don't miss out on anything on the weekends because of poker. I actually rarely play poker on the weekends.

-volume: I don't play a lot. I should play more, but it's tough to motivate myself when I'm currently making more than I ever have, more than any of my friends, and more than both my parents combined.

But, I don't let it bother me. I'm very happy with my lifestyle. Money isn't a concern. If I want to fly home for a week, I can any time I want. If I want to go to vegas for the weekend, I could. If I want to take off mid week and go skiing for a few days, I can. And I don't feel guilty. That's why I'm playing poker. If I had of just concentrated on my career, finished my masters, etc. I'd probably be making similar money but with none of the flexibility. For this I am happy. Of course, I want to make more to compensate for the risk that goes along with play poker for a living, but that'll come with time.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

I want to play 50 hrs/week 12 tabling 6max, its usually about half of that. Though its progressing. Hopefully this can be the month I break the slacking habit (though most won't call 100k/hands a month slacking). Play business hours/business days, take weekend off. But if I go near 50, its prob. only 1 day off.

One thing that helps with the balance, is working during the day instead of night. For me its harder since I 12 table, but if you have the proper set ups, its not hard.

Something I think thats going help, is setting up a office in like a office building to work at. Playing at home is nice, but down the road I think it will help with a lot of balancing with your life. Its ideal if its nearby/walking distance. Ive done it before where its like 20-30 minutes away and the commute sucks. Especially if theirs traffic (really sucked in a lambo). And it didnt last long. I just got a bigger apt. and had a seperate office. But with a GF living with me past year its prob. better to seperate it completely when I go to work.

I used to play nights mostly, but prob. about 25 hours/week. And in miami, socially, if your going out to the club, its usually around midnight so it didnt hurt if I wanted to work at night usually then go out after. Sleeping schedule was a lot worse though, and was little hard to balance the things to do during the day.

I also work out 2-3x a week for about a hour. Play golf and basketball somewhat.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

I used to play a lot. 140 hours a month, 16 tabling.
Now I play an average 100h/month 12-tabling (sometimes 9tabling when the action is bad).

I exercise rigourously and keep a regular sleep schedule but in unorthodox hours (sleep at 5am wakeup 1pm).

I cashout every 2 months, as much as I can to mantain 80Buyin bankroll.

I have a sick all-time hourly rate, and I never had a significant downswing (very smooth ride up) the last 4 years.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

I think r3vbr mad another good point.

What`s the Br you wanna have as a pro?
I think if you play Nl2k+ it should be atleast 40k, or am i off here?

40 is the minimum.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

I think Snoop describes the cash game lifestyle best in "Murder was the Case":

"Havin' money, and blowin' hella chronic smoke"

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

40K? more like 100, preferably more.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

- How many hours of cash game play do you guys (and gals) try to log every week ?
20

- How has playing cash games affected your sleeping cycles ? How has it affected the social aspect of your life?
use to F with it for a little while but going to sleep at noon SUCKS. So now I go to sleep at 3am which is wayyyy better. Can also be more social. I go out at least 1x a week.

- What kind of $ / hour are some of you maintaining ? (please mention stake and # of tables played)
not making what top regs do but good enough. mostly nl400. 9-14 tables

- How do you guys pay yourself?
' i will withdraw X$ when my bankroll reaches X$ '' yep.

Re: Cash game pros - lifestyle (and numbers) questions
 

Hours: ~30/week.
Sleep: Irregular, but it's been that way for me since I was 12.
Exercise: I fist-pump on the regular when I drag a hudge pot.
Mobnies: I make an hourly rate that would make a Yale law graduate jealous.
Social Life: What? I'm introverted anyway, so I don't care. My girlfriend and I basically keep to ourselves. Sometimes we go see a movie or hang out with some other couple we know, but we generally just chill at home.
Payment: I've been at this for a while, and I'm getting kind of rich. I just leave about 2000 BB in the poker accounts and stick the rest in index funds, leaving me enough to handle expenses and things of that nature. I also maintain a cash BR of 1000 BB and leave it in a safe deposit box. If I ever have a huge downswing, I can liquidate money from my investments and stick it back in poker accounts. Thus far, over the span of several years, I haven't had to do that.
Why the Lifestyle is Good: Being a cash game pro means you have a wide-open schedule and you can pretty much do whatever you want, whenever you want. No boss, no rules, no coworkers, no tournament schedules, no staking arrangements, none of that. You have total personal freedom and complete responsibility for yourself. This is the main draw for me because, if there's one thing I really hate, it's jobs.