Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

Dunno about preflop, cap or call.

On the turn, your c/r has been called in five places. I doubt you are ahead here nor will you be able to significantly improve your chances of winning the pot by betting (AT, AJ, A7 folding?).

Our bet or Btn's subsequent raise would have to be called by two of the four limpers for it to be of value to you (we improve 25% of the time to nut straight or flush). If you think the risk of Btn raising and folding two of the limpers is too big, then check and let Btn bet this for you. Free card isn't a catastrophe as you probably are behind currently.

You might consider even a c/r if Btn's bet is called in enough places.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

i think betting here will do a couple of things.
1) it prevents the turn from being checked through
2) it adds a little deception to our hand as weve already represented a made hand, thus giving more action on the river from flush draws

a raise from the button is not a disasterwith the amount of equity we have here and i dont think flush draws are going any where for 2 cold

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

I think that I would have just bet the flop, instead of checkraising. If I got raised, then I think a threebet would be in order, especially if you were still playing against a field.

Right now, any money put in the pot, is probably going in at about even equity for you.

If you make your hand, especially with a jack, you can almost be certain that the button is going to bet, and you will get to checkraise the entire field on the river, when you have 100% equity.

Additionally, all those player who are calling, maybe one of them has smaller spades, which does two things, it means that you have fewer outs, and it also means that they may be planning on checkraising the river. So if the river gets checked to the maniac, it might get checkraised in front of you, and then you can threebet it.

Or, they might bet out on the river, and you could raise it.

Finally, he has bet the flop, and then called, and now is making it like he is going to raise your ber on the turn. I suspect that he might be on a draw here, and is trying to get a freecard from you. You actually have the nut draw, and there isn't really anyone who has done anything but call single bets so far. I think that I might bet, hope that he raises, and in that case, if it gets to headsup, I am going to call him down unimproved.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

bob,
how do you adjust the value of our hand giving the possibility of other FD's?

also, what drawing hands can we put villian on here given his 3- bet preflop?

my apology to OP for hijacking. thanks, fuzz.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

i think capping pf is fine.

i dont bet the turn, and i dont care that it gives away my hand.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

so, you'll capp A-10s preflop, but wont bet with a royal flush draw. fair enough

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
so, you'll capp A-10s preflop, but wont bet with a royal flush draw. fair enough

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm thinking ATs versus 5 opponents preflop has a larger equity advantage than our hand here on the turn against who knows how many opponents? In fact, unless we get 5 callers (maybe 4), I doubt our hand has any equity advantage here at all. FWIW, I also just check here and probably only raise for value if everyone else calls. This is a huge pot; I doubt we're freeing up any outs and someone is definitely showing down a hand.

GcluelessnoobG

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

Grunch:

PF: I like it. If one of the blinds had 3 towned it, I'd cap it, but with the button behind you, just call.

Flop: I don't like it unless he'd actually already put his chips in the pot before you checked. If he checks behind you this is a disaster. And in a pot this big, his raise is going to be called by all the LPPs anyway and you can 3 town it and print some more expectational money. Just bet.

Turn: If you are sure he will bet, just check and call. You likely don't have as many outs as everyone is giving you credit for (there MUST be another flush draw out against you, and another AT is possible as well). Also, facing the field with 2 cold is VERY unlikely to buy you any outs.

River: I advocate spiking the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and collecting the royal flush bonus.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
so, you'll capp A-10s preflop, but wont bet with a royal flush draw. fair enough

[/ QUOTE ]

check the op's post.

"good chance he'll raise the turn."

i dont think being HU on the turn with this hand is a good idea.

you might also want to check how many callers you need to make betting the turn +EV, instead of just thinking, "ZOMG royal flush draw!"

on a similar vein, instead of thinking, "man i only have ATs no one in their right mind caps this," you should start considering how much pf equity your hand has vs a LAG and a bunch of probably dumb limpers.

Re: Big draw on the turn in big pot
 

check if we are 95% sure he will bet. it would be UGLY to bet only to have him raise and force out the rest of the field. dont we want those other players in the hand if we make our hand?