Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

He thought that my PFR was bad so I guess he'll think that limping with ATs is even worse...

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
He thought that my PFR was bad so I guess he'll think that limping with ATs is even worse...

[/ QUOTE ]

That logic doesn't work in poker all the time. You know this. Fold, raise, or limp are not always in order. I think in this case it would be limp > raise or fold. This is absolutely not a raise or fold hand.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

You can limp this. I wouldn't. But it's not absurd.

As played it's a super easy fold. You're repping huge and unobservant, ultra-passive player is repping bigger.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

Let me also say this...

This hand shouldn't be a default raise preflop in EP unless you have a table-specific reason.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

Open-limping OOP in NL, without LRRing, is exploitable. Smart TAGs can pretty consistently raise your open-limps and force you to tough decisions. In general, don't you find that playing OOP outside of the lead is difficult?

I'm sorry if I sounded overly rude. In a lot of games, especially at the lower limits, you can get away with this because people are happy to limp around. So if that's the case in your game, more power to you. Go ahead and limp. But IMO, open-limping, especially with a hand like AT, and especially UTG is -EV.

EDIT: Oh, just to point out, I agree that ATs isn't an auto-raise in EP. I think it should be folded.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Open-limping OOP in NL, without LRRing, is exploitable. Smart TAGs can pretty consistently raise your open-limps and force you to tough decisions. In general, don't you find that playing OOP outside of the lead is difficult?

I'm sorry if I sounded overly rude. In a lot of games, especially at the lower limits, you can get away with this because people are happy to limp around. So if that's the case in your game, more power to you. Go ahead and limp. But IMO, open-limping, especially with a hand like AT, and especially UTG is -EV.

EDIT: Oh, just to point out, I agree that ATs isn't an auto-raise in EP. I think it should be folded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, first I do l/rr. Secondly, if you have a bunch of solid players to your left then you probably shouldn't play ATs at all in EP. Manipulating the pot size is far more important, in general, than having the lead. Raising this hand in EP is "getting out of line"(not by much, but it is). It is up to you whether or not your opponents will punish you for getting out of line.

Everything is exploitable in NL.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

I agree with both of you that coming in with a raise with ATs in EP is not a default play but on the right tables / with the right villains, I def have no problem with it.

Edit: And you see threads, cheese was talking about the open - limp, that was only what I was referring to...

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with both of you that coming in with a raise with ATs in EP is not a default play but on the right tables / with the right villains, I def have no problem with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I'm getting at. In addition, I am saying that at a lot of tables you may be raising it for all the wrong reasons if you default raise it. It doesn't play well OOP in a raised pot, as is evident in this particular hand.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

Fold against a guy with those stats.

He doesn't have to have a set to beat you, he could have like QQ.

Re: NL100: AT makes TP OOP and gets raised on the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold against a guy with those stats.

He doesn't have to have a set to beat you, he could have like QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was in my mind too, that he maybe only flat called with QQ/JJ stuff here and now raises on a low board...

BTW: Congrats on your 5000th post SABR!