Re: KQ
 

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Whoops. Forgot high pocket pairs; that's what I get for posting first thing in morning, lol

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What percentage of an unknown's pre-flop range do you think that is?

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Golly. I'd estimate 50% of the range. Could be more, could be less; since this is an unknown, we can't know for certain [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think playing KQ from the BB getting 5:1 is perfectly fine. We can get away from it if we miss.

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You don't lose money when you miss, you lose money when you hit and call down with 2nd best hand.

Re: KQ
 

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 25.615% 22.52% 03.11% 2610167 360386.67 { KQo }
Hand 1: 42.430% 39.25% 03.19% 4550425 370218.50 { 88+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, AJo+, KQo }
Hand 2: 31.954% 29.90% 02.06% 3466471 239307.33 { 66+, A4s+, K8s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
</pre><hr />

We may not be the favorite in this hand, but at 5:1, we have enough equity to make this call (see above numbers).

Re: KQ
 

But the problem is you win small pots when you hit, and the others miss and fold, but lose big pots when you hit, are dominated, and call down.

Re: KQ
 

How long did you have to diddle the numbers? A4s is calling? KTo? QTo???

If you want to play KQo to a raise for half price against EP raisers go ahead, but it's not the best hand to play back with.

Re: KQ
 

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How long did you have to diddle the numbers?

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About 3 seconds. Literally.

Just plugged in 10% PFR and 20% call. You're probably right, though, that this is too wide a range for an unknown; I wasn't thinking there. If you want to play with the numbers, by all means, go ahead. Report your findings. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Let's not be snarky and keep up civil discourse. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: KQ
 

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But the problem is you win small pots when you hit, and the others miss and fold, but lose big pots when you hit, are dominated, and call down.

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This makes sense and definitely gives me something to think about. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Thanks.

I think there is one minor flaw in this logic, though. You're assuming that we donk when we're ahead and make everybody fold, thus dragging a small pot when we win. On the other hand, you say we call down when we're dominated, thus paying off villain big.

I think that if we just call the c-bet in both cases, it helps to mitigate what you're describing. So long as you don't show villain strength and just call the c-bets, you can get better-sized pots when you're ahead.