Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

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And then by checking you get the nice benefit of being able to raise the river if someone bets and your draw comes in.


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I'd be careful raising if your flush came in. It's the most obvious draw and you'd have just played it like you were on it so what are they betting into you with?

The str8 draw is the one you'd like to see hit on the end.

I agree with Gobbledygeek about the turn. But it's close enough that either way is ok. Just don't spew on the river if a flush hits and someones betting into you.

b

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

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The pot size matters when deciding between a call vs. a fold, not a bet or raise vs. a check or call.

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The size of the pot absolutely matters when deciding whether to bet. When the pot is large, you must be willing to do what is necessary to give yourself a better chance of taking it down. Betting and raising do so. Checking and calling do not.

At the same time you are calculating your equity here, you should also be considering how likely your opponents are to fold to a bet. The more likely that is the more frequently you should continue betting. In this case our chance of folding someone is admittedly small, but I don't think that's an argument to never consider pot size in our decision.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

Good points Hyper. In this particular case, aside from the immediate value shown from a bet on this street, I think the only scenario where there we gain additional equity from folds is the case where:

1. No one has a Q (or a weak Q will fold, but players that play weak Q's don't fold top pair).
2. 9's will fold.
3. JJ-TT will fold.

In this case, your added fold equity helps. Otherwise, a turn bet needs to be for value.

(ah, see you've added this already [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

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I'd be careful raising if your flush came in. It's the most obvious draw and you'd have just played it like you were on it so what are they betting into you with?

The str8 draw is the one you'd like to see hit on the end.


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right, that's true. don't auto spew. you'll raise if a non-club 5 comes in, probably call with a 10, maybe raise if a straightening club comes in. maybe even fold if the action blows up 1,2,3 bets with a baby club.

who and where the bet comes from also matters in deciding whether to raise or not.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

If I'm reading the rest of the comments correctly (and I like to think I am) then you would need 3 callers on the turn and your outs would have to all be clean. I think that if you do get three callers clubs probably aren't good. That takes away from the value. So if you bet and don't get three callers you're -EV and if you do bet and get three callers you're likely -EV.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

you played it correctly. With all the callers on the flop you are clearly behind. The only reason you would bet the turn is if you thought they'd all fold which is unlikely, or if you were going to bet for value ( that is you thought you had the best hand) which is unlikely. So you have to improve to win and you are offered a free card. So you took it as you should have.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

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you played it correctly. With all the callers on the flop you are clearly behind. The only reason you would bet the turn is if you thought they'd all fold which is unlikely, or if you were going to bet for value ( that is you thought you had the best hand) which is unlikely. So you have to improve to win and you are offered a free card. So you took it as you should have.

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You're missing the point. Hero has 8 high, so yeah, he's behind. What we're trying to figure out is if he has enough equity in the pot to make a bet +EV.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

Well I can tell you that at least 2 or more of them will likely not fold if I bet on this table with this board texture. So I am leaning towards the way I played it. But it seems like a bet is that much -EV if at all.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

Look, you can play it that way if you want to gamble and play a bigger pot,with possible favorable odds, but when someone offers me a free chance at an already decent size pot, than I'll take it all day long.

Re: 78 Suited: Bet or take freebie
 

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Look, you can play it that way if you want to gamble and play a bigger pot,with possible favorable odds, but when someone offers me a free chance at an already decent size pot, than I'll take it all day long.

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This is a huge leak.

Read SSHE's chapter on "The Free Card Play" specifically the subchapter about "When to Turn Down the Free Card".