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-   -   TT getting min-raised (http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthread.php?t=539580)

giverofbadbeats 11-07-2007 06:35 PM

Re: TT getting min-raised
 
if the guy is a very good player he has a higher pair here, maybe AA or KK that was waiting to get squeezed. otherwise he has a lower pair or air. i see alot of people minraise pots like this in order to take it down cheap. they are usually doing something ridiculous. i don't put him on a 9 here. i think a 9 calls.
the flop bet doesn't need to be as large as it is, but its marginal. i'd prolly lead out for ~3400.

so, like i said, if i thought he was a good player id muck and if he was a donk id push. some people will actually call with lower pairs here, surprising. so a push is going to max your value on that. i've seen too many minraise bluffs in this situation for this to be an instafold.

Hattifnatt 11-08-2007 06:44 AM

Results
 
I pushed, he had 77 and I was dead to a 2-outer, turn and river bricked and I was out.

I definitely think a fold woulda been a better play, and if it wasnt because I was somewhat frustrated I probably would had done so.

if our stacks was somewhat larger pushing probably is a better play sinse the chance he has something like a low pp and was prepared to fold (and maintain an ok stack) if I pushed is higher.

comments on the hand are still welcome.

phatlat 11-08-2007 11:32 AM

Re: TT getting min-raised
 
Interesting hand.

1. PF – Given you just folded to the utg re-raise, this spot is extra tough. I would have otherwise encouraged a 3500-4100 PF raise from hero.

2. Can you provide more table info on villain? How big is villain's stack PF when he calls from CO? What have you seen him play so far and have you seen him showdown a hand?

3. Given flop action, what could we re-evaluate villain's PF range to?
- If he’s a nit: QQ-AA would have likely put in a raise PF, to avoid cheap blind defence. While JJ is a possible smooth call here for a nit here who is putting you on a monster himself, his min-raise on flop suggests otherwise. Possible hands for a tight player with a nine here include: 89s, 9Ts, A9s
- If he’s not a nit: 33 – 88, 69s – A9s all quite possible, particularly 55 – 88 and 89s – A9s.

4. Any evidence from villain’s prior play that (i) he would think that 55, 66 or 88 is good or (ii) he would min-raise your knowing you have an over pair, to gauge your reaction on 4th? If you don’t have any reason why he’d do either, you must muck. If you do, you might justify a push. Can’t just call, obv.

And re: your QQ muck - seems straight forward if villain was re-popping, not shoving, after utg limp.

phatlat 11-08-2007 12:39 PM

Re: TT getting min-raised
 
My mistake, didn't see villain's stack at 21K. Also not a good sign.

furfur 11-11-2007 06:58 PM

Re: TT getting min-raised
 
Preflop he could have called with 77 up, aj and up. Minraise on flop is likely with worse hand than ours(he may be trying to see where he stands with his modest PP or may be bluffing with aj or aq) versus rarely slow-played AA,KK. We're too short-stacked to fold here. Call!

AAlimper 11-11-2007 07:52 PM

Re: TT getting min-raised
 
Because your preflop raise was so small, he would probably have re-raised if he had a bigger pair than yours.. to avoid being outdrawn by the blinds who got to see the flop very cheap. I think it`s more likely to be up against a higher pocket pair here the higher your preflop raise is.

Because of this thinking I would have pushed the flop after he mini-raised.

Btw, I don`t like the small preflop raise here either. Prefer limp or raise to 3.5k.


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