Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

QUICK NOTE: Matrix, how are you pregame mining? This is stars. Are you using some rogue program that is against their TOC or am I missing something?

Wow, that was quick. Thanks for the responses guys. I'll have to check out AMA's line.

FWIW, I don't think having a default "always" line against random unknowns that don't know you is a bad thing. To them it is effectively random, and we have no knowledge of their play, so we have no reason to differentiate from what we think is the "best" play in a vacuum against said unknown/unknowns. When we start to have any info on villain/they have info on us that is when we need to start not *always* doing something. AMIRITE?

In my experience, players at this level are generally worse than better, and are almost always calling 3-bets with PP's if they raise them, playing the set-mining game even if they shouldn't be according to the 5-10 rule. Which inclines me to be 3-betting against random unknowns figuring that at the very least 66-TT are calling. Thoughts?

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

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Just callin in the BB makes the hand så hard to play.

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as opposed to your line, which as we can see worked out
great

I think it worked out pretty well actually. I would have lost the pot anyhow. The only reason i lost to much was that BTN called to and I cb to big. Dont see why I should just call preflop. That is a little bit to nitty
[img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

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You guys really flat JJ here from the SB? Wow, thats news to me. But if both Matrix and AMA are doing it here I am really curious . . . maybe I am missing something.

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Totally depends, but you know nothing about anyone so I err on the side of caution

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Agreed, why 3-bet someone when you don't know how tight they call 3-bets? We only have JJ, we don't have KK. As played, I guess postflop is fine.

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

re mining: I play at Party not Stars precisely because I can get a little edge on players a little easier. Even if the rake is higher and there is no RB I think I do better there than I would at Stars. YMMV.

I also flat call QQ here, but then I'm tricky like that sometimes.

I think this is more a "we don't know anything about anyone here so lets keep it tight until we do" situation rather than "zomg I got JJ lets 3bet"

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

Preflop is standard and anything else is bad, really. Flat calling QQ is ridiculous.

flop bet is too big as noted, here the pot is already so big that you can get away with half pot. Or just check and see what happens. Sucks he had AQ.

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

Jam, i love that you post here (coach me?). could you provide a little bit of reasoning for rr JJ here so we can put this to bed?

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

Well basically the reasoning is "zomg I got JJ lets 3bet". Jacks are a really good hand, and we don't mind too much if we get called or not. Sure it's tough if the flop is 9 high and someone has AA but it's just as tough if we flat call pre.

Or put it this way - there's no winning player at mid stakes that I've ever encountered who would call here pre without meta.

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

re-raise is so standard its boring preflop. Im 50/50 on flop with leading and checking its villan dependent. If all checks around fire a turn barrell. people float soo much rubbish like any pp 53o loads of rubbish. If it checks around and you lead turn a mid pp will call then most likely check river back

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

i'm much more apt to call without the caller. I pretty much always 3bet here and lead flop for 17. CF after that

Re: NL50 - JJ in a RR pott
 

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Well basically the reasoning is "zomg I got JJ lets 3bet". Jacks are a really good hand, and we don't mind too much if we get called or not. Sure it's tough if the flop is 9 high and someone has AA but it's just as tough if we flat call pre.

Or put it this way - there's no winning player at mid stakes that I've ever encountered who would call here pre without meta.

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Jam do you find mid-stakes players also squeeze with much worse stuff than JJ, such as A4s or whatever. This way it forces people to cold call much weaker hands, like KQ/KJ or low pairs or something. Seems like it would be a profitable spot to squeeze with ATC assuming villians play reasonable.

At the micro's tho it seems that people do not fold....