Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

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i dont think it matters what you do here
if u have 2.5k hands a little more about villain would help though

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Most of the hands are datamined, but I guess we played a couple of 100's.
I have no notes on him, which means I didn't notice anything out of line so far.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

jesus christ this makes me puke really really hard. Seriously, NEVER, NEVER,

NEVER NVER NVER NEVER EVER EVER fold here.

NEVER! you hear me?!

A flush draw could do this, an over pair, a total bluff. Seriously dont look at those freakin stats, and just go broke here. Your ahead of their range.

If you fold this, just check flop, or just freakin fold every hand preflop or something.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

most overpairs reraise pf and the weaker ones like 8s or 9s prob dont reraise flop when its clear op has a hand betting into 2 ppl here, plus i c draws cold calling a lot more here with position and hoping to invite some multiway action then raising into op who obviously has a hand and sb who might. And saying this is a total bluff is burning money.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

btw, even if op does happen to be ahead to btns reraising range here, he folds out the worse hands by 4betting almost always against a normal opponent.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

i can say i woldn't fold here, a re-raise is definatly in order and if shoved back, then well......is it still possible for him to do that with 88+ even with his stats? i think if 4 bet fold. but even check/calling till river is better than folding to a raise on that board.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

obv very player dependant, just saying i think btns reraises here r prob stronger than usual in this spot and if he isnt then we r folding out what we beat almost always - i really think draws cold call here and its prob the right play to do so IMO.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

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btw, even if op does happen to be ahead to btns reraising range here, he folds out the worse hands by 4betting almost always against a normal opponent.

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yes, this was a main consideration.
With the 3rd player in, villain has usually a combo-draw or a set. Vs this range, we do pretty bad:

Board: 7s 3s 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.010% 30.47% 00.54% 6033 107.00 { KcKd }
Hand 1: 68.990% 68.45% 00.54% 13553 107.00 { 77, 55, 33, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As2s, 9s8s, 8s6s }

Yes, once in a while he will show up with TT, but will likely be folding when we shove (what I think we need to do, if we continue)

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

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i can say i woldn't fold here, a re-raise is definatly in order and if shoved back, then well......is it still possible for him to do that with 88+ even with his stats? i think if 4 bet fold. but even check/calling till river is better than folding to a raise on that board.

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wtf, he just put a quarter of his stack in.
repop/folding would be beyond terrible!

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

I don't fold here. could be a leak but I get it in almost everytime.

Re: KK lay down - quick check
 

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btw, even if op does happen to be ahead to btns reraising range here, he folds out the worse hands by 4betting almost always against a normal opponent.

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yes, this was a main consideration.
With the 3rd player in, villain has usually a combo-draw or a set. Vs this range, we do pretty bad:

Board: 7s 3s 5h
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 31.010% 30.47% 00.54% 6033 107.00 { KcKd }
Hand 1: 68.990% 68.45% 00.54% 13553 107.00 { 77, 55, 33, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, As9s, As8s, As6s, As5s, As4s, As2s, 9s8s, 8s6s }

Yes, once in a while he will show up with TT, but will likely be folding when we shove (what I think we need to do, if we continue)

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B/c a 4-bet folds out hands we beat, if one is inclined to continue in the hand, is there any merit to calling flop, and either crai or donking a safe turn?