Re: TPTK, best line?
 

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dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

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Yes we want them to donate. In this situation though I would want them to donate when they are the most incorrect to do so. This would be best achieved by betting the flop. Another thing that may happen (although I admit it wouldn't happen very often) is that the flop gets checked through, which would really suck.

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It's more incorrect to get them to put in two bets with the worst hand than one. Since getting checked through admittedly doesn't happen very often, it's worth the risk to get two.

Also, the flop getting checked through isn't a big problem. It's a drawless board and nobody has lots of outs against you.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

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dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we want them to donate. In this situation though I would want them to donate when they are the most incorrect to do so. This would be best achieved by betting the flop. Another thing that may happen (although I admit it wouldn't happen very often) is that the flop gets checked through, which would really suck.

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It's more incorrect to get them to put in two bets with the worst hand than one. Since getting checked through admittedly doesn't happen very often, it's worth the risk to get two.

Also, the flop getting checked through isn't a big problem. It's a drawless board and nobody has lots of outs against you.

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Two bets cold would be a bigger mistake, not one then another one coming back when you check raise the flop with AQ.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

They're a lot less likely to donate 2 bets cold than 1 bet at a time.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
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dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we want them to donate. In this situation though I would want them to donate when they are the most incorrect to do so. This would be best achieved by betting the flop. Another thing that may happen (although I admit it wouldn't happen very often) is that the flop gets checked through, which would really suck.

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It's more incorrect to get them to put in two bets with the worst hand than one. Since getting checked through admittedly doesn't happen very often, it's worth the risk to get two.

Also, the flop getting checked through isn't a big problem. It's a drawless board and nobody has lots of outs against you.

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Two bets cold would be a bigger mistake, not one then another one coming back when you check raise the flop with AQ.

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Perhaps in some theoretical sense, but that mistake is far less common and the net result of their error is the same in both cases.

However, if your donk gets raised, you're far more likely against a better hand and you've put yourself in a worse position.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
dr -- if it was heads up, I agree with you. But there are 2 other people in the pot besides the PF 3-bettor, so we want them to donate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we want them to donate. In this situation though I would want them to donate when they are the most incorrect to do so. This would be best achieved by betting the flop. Another thing that may happen (although I admit it wouldn't happen very often) is that the flop gets checked through, which would really suck.

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u have you realize that villains putting in 2 bets one at a time on the flop is just as bad for them as putting in 2 bets at the same time on the flop.
CR all day and 2x on sundays.
betting the flop will either get everyone in for one bet or it will get you heads up vs a better hand.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

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Rob, I don't see the BDFD but I agree with a checkraise. This is a super dry flop. Only if BB managed to dive in with 54s does anyone have more than 3-4 outs against us when we're ahead. I like getting a lot of chips in our pot.

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Weird, I swear when I first saw this the post said A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Anyway I still like a checkraise.

Rob

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

I really appreciate everyone's comments.

Entity, PJ, Snowball and AaronW all said CR. Ssmallz (i'm suprised cuz you seem to like to CR a lot) and DRBK2 said bet out.

I bet out the flop, Villain called, one doanator called, and the other folded.

The Turn was a brick. Check to me, I bet, fold, fold. It felt like a pretty small pot i was raking in considering the pre-flop action, and how good the flop was for me.

My default in most situations when I'm confused is to not be tricky, and I consider CR more tricky than betting out. I also assumed the Villain behind me had AK. And I assumed that he would check his AK if I checked. (I would in that spot a decent amount). So I bet. When he folded on the turn he said "AQ?". I think he did have AK.

My thinking was sort of paranoid/overly negative in thinking "he has AK and he's gonna check, so I better bet now or I'm screwed". I should have thought he has TT (6), JJ (6) and AK (12). And he's got AA (3), KK (6), QQ (3). (I know I'm leaving out AJs, KQs, 99, and AQ but those are less likely.) So he's got 24 combos I'm WA, and he's gonna bet these maybe 3/4 of the time (TT and JJ always, AK 50%). And he's got only 12 combos that I'm WB. I think that makes it a clear CR. It seems a fine play against the villain's range and probable action, but more importanly I'm going to pull in a lot, lot more of the donator money with the CR.

A lot of you guys made that point. I thought i'd spell it out one more time. Thanks for your good comments.

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

Quote:

Rob, I don't see the BDFD but I agree with a checkraise. This is a super dry flop. Only if BB managed to dive in with 54s does anyone have more than 3-4 outs against us when we're ahead. I like getting a lot of chips in our pot.



Weird, I swear when I first saw this the post said AQ. Anyway I still like a checkraise.

Rob

The BDFD is very back door. You have to want to see it. Usually only getting there by 6th street [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

this is an auto c'r/call down if 3 bet for me.

Barron

Re: TPTK, best line?
 

Normally in these cases, you simply want to get HU vs. a guy who hopefully has AK or a lower pocket pair than Queens. But this is a pretty dry board, so your immediate concern is not about who is drawing to what. It's simply "am I ahead or not?".

I actually like check raising the flop here. Even is some others get trapped in the middle, it's not really too bad for you is it?

If he 3-bets the flop then you're in a tough spot (maybe calldown land?) It's hard to know how to play vs unknown players and I usually will not fold TPTK on board like this.