Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

there was no reason to expect crisp to underperform so badly. he seemed like a good fit for boston, got hurt and wasn't ever really the same. he projected much better than he has been. i was fine with that trade at the time. we got a crap prospect in marte but we flipped him before the indians had a chance to realize he was crap [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

theo has made some dubious moves but he gets away with it because boston has a great scouting / farm system and a big payroll. the matsuzaka signing will pan out for us - dice did pretty well for his first year in the AL East. it took beckett a full year to adjust, now look at him. you also help yourself by putting up that money, because if the sox don't get the bid, there's a good chance he ends up on NYY. hence you hurt your opponent while helping yourself.

the drew and lugo signings are pretty blah so far, but i think they learned from the renteria debacle - they won't give up on those guys right away, and they're both likely to bounce back next year.

kason gabbard showing anything other than AAAA caliber stuff is baffling. the guy languished in pawtucket for a long time, never really seemed to have it together. we have a bunch of other guys with similar minor-league numbers (corey, hansack, etc) and a wealth of young pitching talent coming up through the lower minors. there really wasn't much room for gabbard or murphy on the sox in the next few years, and they are both pretty old for being marginal prospects. nothing wrong with giving these guys up while in GFIN mode, the problem was not figuring out that gagne was hurt. i think everyone had an inkling that he was hiding an injury (hell, how else did we get him so cheap?) but the sox decided to say [censored] it, let's see if he can help out. it's a gamble worth taking when you can deal guys who are blocked anyway or nearing the end of their window.

none of these moves (other than bard/meredith, that was awful) are half as bad as your buddy thinks. theo isn't the genius he is heralded as, but he is a bold GM with the luxury of great job security who generally does a good job.

i didn't hear your friend mention anything about how he has patched together the best bullpen in baseball from a couple of young farm system studs, some journeyman vets and a guy who was supposed to be dice-k's caddy when they brought him over. or about how the sox are loaded with young pitching talent and have more of it coming up through the minors as we speak. beckett's extension was a great deal for us and we already have maybe the best post-arb SP contract in baseball in timmy dubs.

theo is overrated, but he does a good job nonetheless.

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

Or I could misread the market and put up an extra 12 million dollar posting fee for a japaneese pitcher, knowing full well that no Japaneese pitcher has performed to an all star level consistently in the U.S. [ QUOTE ]


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dice k rules. i hate him for this comment alone!

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

Epstein is overrated in the same sense that Billy Beane is overated. They both get credited for others work.

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

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I don't think he qualifies as "very good"....The fact that his payroll is limitless offsets the fact that he went and spent like 100 million for Dice-K (way too much for the result); too much for lugo, drew, clement, etc.....he's not bad by any means, but i wouldnt consider him very good

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So far you're judging all of these deals on ONE year of a bunch of long term deals. The only definite bust there is Clement, and while he probably would've ended up being overpaid, he was doing fine before catching a comebacker off his dome.

Your view is very short-sighted. Calling out Dice-K is especially laughable (another thought on Dice-K: it's doubtful Theo was the driving force behind the big overbid. The owners had a big interest in landing him).

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

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Or I could trade an emerging #3/4 starter (Gabbard) and an emerging #3 OF (Murphy) for a closer who has not been dominant for the better part of 4 seasons, never pitched in the pressure of a large market, and ask him to perform in a role (Setup) that he has never performed in, and see how that works out (not well)


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Epstein is pretty bad, but I'd say the Gagne deal is going to work out just fine. They are likely going to get two first round picks for two players that are not worth first round picks. It was the irrational Red Sox fans that were expecting Gagne to be the savior.

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

part1: from renteria to crisp was a mess, but no part of that transition really "hurt" the red sox. gonzalez is not better than lugo.

part2: there were other bids for drew. baltimore was in on him for sure, and i remember reading other teams interested. jd drew is not an "abomination", he is a good player.

part3: gabbard and murphy have no place on this team, and were classic sell high prospects. i highly doubt either has a productive career. everyone at the trade deadline thought getting gagne was a good move, you can't go back and criticize him now.

part4: meredith/bard for mirabelli was a disaster

part5: thats one of the advantages of being the red sox, and theo would be foolish if he didnt make sure he won the bidding for matsuzaka if he wanted him as badly as he says. i'm not sure how people can rip him for this move, he had a pretty good year, and its the first of 6.

i think theo is a top 5 gm. the future in boston is very bright.

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

[x] signed Big Papi for loose change in 2003

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

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He's apparently decent at assessing young talent but has been legitimately awful in the free agent market...

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Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

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He is overrated.

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Your insight is amazing. Quality reply.

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Well, your only question was "Who's side are you on?"

I think he took that to mean either "He's overrated", or "he's underrated", or perhaps "he's rated appropriately."

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Exactly. You asked who's side i'm on. I think he is overrated. Your friend pretty much sums up a lot of his mistakes.

You also didn't list any reasons why he isn't overrated in your OP. ty for your amazing insight.

I don't think he is a horrible GM, I just think he was much better in his first few years, before the Red Sox increased spending to compete with the Yankees.

Re: One of my friends thinks Theo Epstein is an overated GM.
 

Also, I wouldn't give up on Marte just yet. There were only six players his age who hit more HR's than he did in AAA THIS YEAR and his Ks are manageable. He's not the #1 overall prospect like he was hyped up at the time, but then he was never that. He's still got a good chance to be a very good big league regular. It's a matter of someone giving him regular playing time for 600 AB so we can figure out exactly what he's going to be. Cleveland should probably let Blake walk and give Marte a full look in 2008.