Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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put him on 68 and check call his ass.

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i like

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

I'm not sure about NL as I have less experience there but in LHE a rapid call tends to be a sign of weakness - the caller is consciously or unconsciously trying to make you think bluffing the next street is hopeless.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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I'm not sure about NL as I have less experience there but in LHE a rapid call tends to be a sign of weakness - the caller is consciously or unconsciously trying to make you think bluffing the next street is hopeless.

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shh

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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I'm not sure about NL as I have less experience there but in LHE a rapid call tends to be a sign of weakness - the caller is consciously or unconsciously trying to make you think bluffing the next street is hopeless.

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in lhe, bluffing the next street is hopeless

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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I'm not sure about NL as I have less experience there but in LHE a rapid call tends to be a sign of weakness - the caller is consciously or unconsciously trying to make you think bluffing the next street is hopeless.

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in lhe, bluffing the next street is hopeless

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How did you think the word "value-bluff" exists [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

There really isn't much to debate; timing tells are definitely viable, although highly subjective and player-dependent. In this specific case, I think RR'd pots throw off the standard timing tells dynamic for most players, as they often think more, hollywood more, etc, so I don't think your timing read adds much to your bluff value, especially barring significant history with the player.

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

I definitely think its a mistake to assume that he had a weak hand because he took a while. He might have been trying to figure out how to get the most value from his monster..

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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There really isn't much to debate; timing tells are definitely viable, although highly subjective and player-dependent.

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this is spot on. there are tons of players who snap call when theyre on a weak made hand/drawing, and tons of players who do the same with the nuts (nuts meaning they fully intend to call the next street(s))

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

ok so no wonder he had 777

Re: help settle debate on timing tells
 

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as a general rule, quick calls from a villain mean they want to get to showdown, or free card.

I'm much more apt to dbl barrel a turn, or 3rd barrel if I'm quick called.

If he takes his time, I generally think he has a strong hand and is thinking of best way to get value, or what have you...before he makes his action.

Of course, eventual reads and [censored] change this some...

but that's my general rule of hu. Quick call = weak hand, drawing hand, wants free showdown. Delay call = strongish hand, made hand, etc.

I've played a lot of HU, but this last summer I've really noticed this more/payed more attention to... and put in the most amount of hands I have at hu play, near 160k.

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I definitely agree. Quick calls from an opponent generally mean they're hoping to slow the bettor down and get to showdown as cheap as possible imo.