Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

agreed

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

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I just tried to clean NotFreeMonies bug off the screen.... levelled.

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I've tried to flick that damn thing off my screen twice in the past week, so take everything I say with a grain of salt.

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but with NFD you still want to play a big pot

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I'm starting to have my doubts about the value of the nut flush draw in a short handed pot, too. It's gotten to the point that even in a low stakes NL live game, EVERYONE sees the third suited card land, so as soon as you make your hand, your action is gone.

The only nut flush draw that seems valuable to me is one with two overs b/c of the folding equity you get when you make a strong move, but that's not going to happen with a weak ace.

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

what about pair and NFD tho?

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

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what about pair and NFD tho?

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with a straight draw to boot?!

Axs first in in late MP and LP constitutes a mandatory raise for me unless there are reasons not to. such as an aggro-maniac with a bad habit of rerasing anything from a LP raise when sitting OTB or in the blinds. then you must wait for a solid hand or grab a seat to his left as quickly as possible to exploit him.

EN

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

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what about pair and NFD tho?

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True, that's as good as the two overs, but it's much less likely to happen.

Regardless, I think we are getting off subject though by focusing on the best case scenerios.

90% of the time, we aren't getting a flush draw and even when that the miracle happens and we do catch it, it's guarenteed us nothing but a 35% of making a nut by the river that is so obvious that Stevie Wonder would notice it.

It's no where near as good as a set.

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

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Axs first in in late MP and LP constitutes a mandatory raise for me unless there are reasons not to.

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Agreed. I have been taught the same thing. My question isn't "What are we doing?" My question is "Why are we doing it"?

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

With Axs, when you flop a pair and a draw or even just the nut draw, you can play for stacks. You aren't playing Axs for high card values, you are playing it to draw to the nuts. So, you put a little in, steal a little and release when the going gets rough. You hardly ever play for high card values and then only in small pots. With Axo, you rarely make those sorts of draws.

In my mind, A(2-5)s play better than A(6-9)s as you can also flop a wheel draw which is another big pot hand.

The only big pot hand you can make with Axo is 2 pair. Trip A's is a total trap if you can't get away from it.

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

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Axs first in in late MP and LP constitutes a mandatory raise for me unless there are reasons not to.

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Agreed. I have been taught the same thing. My question isn't "What are we doing?" My question is "Why are we doing it"?



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well here's why i do it...

1) mix up play

2) it does take own the blinds now and then

3) it hits small trips and the pfr disguises the hand well

4) it is super easy to get away from

5) oh yeah... the flush draw too

now that being said if i happen to hit an Ace i'm not really happy, would you be? i have a weak-ass kicker and most likely am dominated big time. don't go broke with a weak Ace.

i'm sure there are other reasons to pop an Axs first in, but those are some of mine.

EN

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

Most of the time when you flop a big draw, especially in position, you aren't really hoping to have to make your draw. You're hoping to use your fold equity most of the time.

Nut draws are so powerful because you can put tremendous pressure on your opponents with a really good safety net, not because you can passively draw.

You can't do that with a small pair. You have to make a hand to apply pressure and then you may not get paid off.

Re: Why do we steal with Axs?
 

Cuz it's fun? [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] lol

We raise in MP and LP (among other reasons) to either steal the blinds or buy the button. If we're called, a cbet can take the pot down a good percent of the time. A-x is a nice hand to do this with because you still have something decent to play with if you're called. A-x suited is even better because aside from all the other goodness, we might flop a draw to the nuts flush or a pair/NFD combo or something juicy like that. If we do, the pot's already larger since we raised preflop, AND our preflop aggression may buy us some free looks. I also think it increases our fold equity if we decide to push a combo or FD draw. If anyone comes up with other stuff, lemme know!


OOOOOoooo one more thing. I've seen a lot of draw-pricing at 25NL recently. (players who are OOP making tiny bets to price their draws in). It's funny as hell when you let them (since you're on the same draw, only better) and then they shove when they hit, you call and they cry. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]