Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

I bet and hope he stacks off with 4's-10s which he probably won't do......This is tizerd right?

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

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???

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I guess that indicates that this is an easy bet. I guess my issue is I rarely take this line - I'm usually rr'ing pre. In any event, I know what I read his hand for - but i'm curious if everyone agrees.

[/ QUOTE ]Flop is pretty bad if your not shoving this turn.

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Well I did shove turn (rightly or wrongly, some people have advocated checking behind, and trying to extract value on the river...which I think may be the superior line).

I don't want to give away too much of my read on him - as we play together quite a bit. But is raising the flop here ever a good idea?

And EM2 - yes, I believe this is Tizerd. And obviously I thought he was capable of calling w/ medium pairs - otherwise i would not have shoved [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

i don't see why a bet is advocated here. tizerd does take super weird lines but he's not calling with naked overs.

i'd take one off, see if he won't value-stack himself or think our hand range is weaker with a river bet than a turn bet.

curious - are you guys really shoving 45s, AJs, A5s, naked overs/air-ish bluffs here?

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

against mizzles u should be getting this in every time here

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

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against mizzles u should be getting this in every time here

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Getting it in here? On the turn? or VBing river?

I shoved turn, and when he snap-called QQ I felt like I had just been owned. But I do think he's capable of calling w/ 88 here - but I dunno. If I had to do it over again, I would check thru turn and take it from there.

The other issue is - if the turn comes 10d, and he leads for 850, can I call? Is he ever v-betting worse?

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

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i don't see why a bet is advocated here. tizerd does take super weird lines but he's not calling with naked overs.

i'd take one off, see if he won't value-stack himself or think our hand range is weaker with a river bet than a turn bet.

curious - are you guys really shoving 45s, AJs, A5s, naked overs/air-ish bluffs here?

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we are suggesting vshoving JJ in this spot. this obviously means that we are not bluffing those other hands. we cant do both.

i think you should shove here with JJ as long as you time down before you shove. i would like checking behind with a hand that has more equity vs overcards (AA, 33, 2x), but i certainly do not mind a check behind here.

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

is checking turn that bad after raising flop?

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

I like checking the turn here with plans of calling a river bet/Betting river when checked to vs mizzles here. The problem with betting/shoving here is that he will often play perfectly vs us....he might stack off on the turn with 99/TT but he's probably folding everything else.

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

I don't like shoving the turn, but I would bet like $700 or something and obv call a shove. If the turn didn't kill all the draws you could have here then I don't mind shoving, but now you'd be pretty crazy to "semibluff" any kind of draw with three of a kind on the board.

Checking is also fine though.

Re: 10-20 v Mizzles w/ JJ
 

well yea i prefer raising smaller on flop and a small bet on turn. i guess i prefer checking if its between shove or check.