Re: Turn Decision
 

I think you bet. You are probably ahead and, if, not have lots of chances to improve (14?). If someone has a KQ/8 and was laying low to CR you, then fu-kem, hit your spade on the river and raise his ass a couple times then.

Re: Turn Decision
 

"check calling me" means that they checked, and then I bet, and then they called, sorry.

But anyways, it seems there are mixed opinions about this hand. I don't agree with anyone who says this is an easy bet. Keep in mind the difference between a 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and say a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. A 2 I would bet 100% of the time and I feel thats why it might be perceived that this is an easy bet.

Here's my analyzation.
Theres a very slim chance I'm in the lead here, maybe at most a 10% chance I'm in the lead(we'll assume I'm lucky [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) A bet here makes a draw or two pay for a river yes, but a bet here means that 90% of the time I'm betting while behind. On the other hand, I'm gaining equity with draws and if someone has a crappy jack(im maybe a 2 or 3/1 dog or so) going multi-way to the river. I'm 4/1 vs a made straight or set right now which will surely check raise me on the turn. I don't know how often someone will have a set/straight here so I won't guess. I'm probably gaining enough information and equity as often as someone doesn't have a straight/set/better hand which would mean this situation I should have bet. But I think it's close.

Re: Turn Decision
 

A set is so unlikely here, The worst you're against is a jack, two pair or a straight and you're not much of a dog against the first 2.

Re: Turn Decision
 

This definitely not an easy bet and actually I dont think a check is bad here at all. For those of you thinking that we need to charge straight draws; you are working under the assumption that we presently have the best hand. Someone almost always has a T. If you could make the case that the T would fold to a turn bet then I could agree. Anyone ready to say that? The reasons I have seen for betting are not very compelling at all. Anyone who has a pair probably has a pair sd combo, which means they are never folding.

Re: Turn Decision
 

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A set is so unlikely here,

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not anymore unlikely than normal

Re: Turn Decision
 

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A set is so unlikely here,

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not anymore unlikely than normal

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2 out of the 3 sets raises pf majority of the time, so I'm discounting a set here a lot. It would be more likely that you saw JT or J9 here than a set by a long shot.

I'm still betting the turn though. I don't think it is a super easy bet but I think it is still a bet.

I think the hardest part of this hand would be if you hit your ace on the river if the turn gets check raised.

Re: Turn Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
"check calling me" means that they checked, and then I bet, and then they called, sorry.

But anyways, it seems there are mixed opinions about this hand. I don't agree with anyone who says this is an easy bet. Keep in mind the difference between a 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and say a 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. A 2 I would bet 100% of the time and I feel thats why it might be perceived that this is an easy bet.

Here's my analyzation.
Theres a very slim chance I'm in the lead here, maybe at most a 10% chance I'm in the lead(we'll assume I'm lucky [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) A bet here makes a draw or two pay for a river yes, but a bet here means that 90% of the time I'm betting while behind. On the other hand, I'm gaining equity with draws and if someone has a crappy jack(im maybe a 2 or 3/1 dog or so) going multi-way to the river. I'm 4/1 vs a made straight or set right now which will surely check raise me on the turn. I don't know how often someone will have a set/straight here so I won't guess. I'm probably gaining enough information and equity as often as someone doesn't have a straight/set/better hand which would mean this situation I should have bet. But I think it's close.

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Your reason is compelling. The fact that you have 4 other players and the scary turn card makes the decision tough.

However, other than describing opponents as loose, you failed to mention their aggression. You don't really mention how the table has been playing. When you say "bad" players, I assume both "loose" and "passive" as a default. If you described 2 or more players in the hand as "tricky", then I would definitely check the turn. The more passive the current field, the more I like a turn bet.

Also a lot of players when they do hit 2 pair often lead the turn themselves in fear of giving away free cards for a straight or a flush. Same goes with a set. The one hand you are definitely looking out for is KQ (and maybe 87).

As a default I like to bet my hands and get to showdown. Bad players love to peel with hands such as AK, AQ, pocket pairs one time. In addition, you're likely against hands such as QT, T8, KT. I also don't like giving free cards to the field. So until the players show the propensity to slowplay (i.e. check-raise on the turn), I'm taking the aggressive option and then toning it down accordingly.

This works for me personally, as I am not a reliable continuation turn (or even flop) bettor, so if I just had a flush draw or straight draw or overs on the turn against a large field, I definitely take the free card. In essence I try to train my opponents to bet their own hands.

Garland

Re: Turn Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
However, other than describing opponents as loose, you failed to mention their aggression. You don't really mention how the table has been playing. When you say "bad" players, I assume both "loose" and "passive" as a default. If you described 2 or more players in the hand as "tricky", then I would definitely check the turn. The more passive the current field, the more I like a turn bet.

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Thats what makes this site difficult. My best description of everyone, is loose, semi-passive. Players trying to play well, even though they have no understanding of hand values and are completely clueless to any of their surroundings. ---thats the best I can describe.

Re: Turn Decision
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
However, other than describing opponents as loose, you failed to mention their aggression. You don't really mention how the table has been playing. When you say "bad" players, I assume both "loose" and "passive" as a default. If you described 2 or more players in the hand as "tricky", then I would definitely check the turn. The more passive the current field, the more I like a turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what makes this site difficult. My best description of everyone, is loose, semi-passive. Players trying to play well, even though they have no understanding of hand values and are completely clueless to any of their surroundings. ---thats the best I can describe.

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And I mean this site is difficult because it's impossible to explain exactly how someone plays which is important to know for many situations. I didn't mean that everyone at this site is loose passive and clueless [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Turn Decision
 

Canterbury players are passive, but not low limit passive, i.e. they are not aggressive enough, but they are not of the only raise with the nuts mold.