Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm happy to call the 3-bet and play a flop. I don't see how its that difficult to play against a TAG. If you miss you fold since you are nearly always behind if they c-bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? I'll 3bet 97s here and then c-bet QT4r

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm happy to call the 3-bet and play a flop. I don't see how its that difficult to play against a TAG. If you miss you fold since you are nearly always behind if they c-bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? I'll 3bet 97s here and then c-bet QT4r

[/ QUOTE ]

yup, cause assuming AZ is playing standard tag stats, theyre prime to 3bet with weaker hands, since you know that they know that youre playing tight, and with your tag image its not easy to put you on crap and then it turns into an i know that you know that i know thing any farther than that.

i almost confused myself with that...but yea 4bet/call shove. and of course its not always like that explained above

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm happy to call the 3-bet and play a flop. I don't see how its that difficult to play against a TAG. If you miss you fold since you are nearly always behind if they c-bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

Are you kidding? I'll 3bet 97s here and then c-bet QT4r

[/ QUOTE ]

Really it depends on the 3-betting range of my opponents. If we are talking about someone who 3 bets with 97s and c-bets almost any flop then I'm playing it different than against a more predictable opponent.

I think perhaps I used the term TAG incorrectly in my previous post. I was talking more about the ABC which is different to TAG.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

100% standard as long as u r doin this with QQ+

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

i don't get it - what's wrong w/ just calling the 3-bet pre-flop and getting it all in on an A or K flop? Once you 4-bet villain, she's only gonna call/shove w/ a *very* tight range. You are basically turning your AK into a bluff by 4-betting pf vs. a TAG villain.

Once you 4-bet and villain shoves you are way behind her range. AA,KK make up a big part of her range, with slight percentages for QQ/AK. So fold.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

If you do the math, once you 4bet you just about have odds to call even if his range is just KK/AA. Depending on your 4bet amount and if you add in AK/QQ even half the time, you must call his 5bet.

Calling his 3bet oop is pretty bad for the following reasons:

a)you're simply ahead of alot of his range
b)you're going to get alot of coinflip hands to fold
c)You're going to miss the flop too often to make calling profitable, if your plan is to cf.
d)Even if you do hit, you don't necessarily get his stack depending on how lightly he is 3betting and stacking off.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

It balances your play with QQ+. It doesn't give his suited connector or w/e he's got a chance to hit something. And probably most importantly you can fold out hands that are beating you: 77-JJ and AK will fold to your 4bet a large portion of the time. BTW if you just call and hit a K or A you won't win much at all if anything more from these hands.

And AKo has got ~31% equity vs QQ+....easily odds to call if he 5bet shoves. If he just calls your 4bet then you can check fold if you miss or get it in if you hit a hand.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

[ QUOTE ]
i don't get it - what's wrong w/ just calling the 3-bet pre-flop and getting it all in on an A or K flop?

[/ QUOTE ]wut hands is villian planning on stacking off on the flop that is A or K high that we beat?!?!? not to mention that we r oop here and will have a tough time to play the hand profitably.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

hero is a 4-1 dog if we narrow villain's range to KK+, definitely not enough equity to call. We can add in AK/QQ, but I would put this as a much smaller part of her range.

and about your following points:
[ QUOTE ]

a)you're simply ahead of alot of his range


[/ QUOTE ]
you may be right, but like i said above, 4-betting will fold out all of those hands that you beat and get calls from those that have you crushed.

[ QUOTE ]

b)you're going to get alot of coinflip hands to fold


[/ QUOTE ]
According to OP, villain's range will be TT+, AJ+. The hands that we have crushed, AJ/AQ most likely will fold, so only TT/JJ are the two hands that we most likely will fold out that we are coinflips to. I dunno about the math on how often they will have these hands, but there are many more combinations of AJ and AQ than there are of TT/JJ.

[ QUOTE ]

c)You're going to miss the flop too often to make calling profitable, if your plan is to cf.

[/ QUOTE ]
Villain's 3-betting range is pretty tight. According to OP, she is not going to be doing this w/ 98s. We have to assume that if we don't have an A or K on the flop, then we are beat most of the time. In addition, if an A does flop, then we can usually stack the AJ or AQ.

Re: This is my standard, but is it spew? AK pre flop, NL $50 6m
 

hero is getting laid 3:1 odds on the 5bet. Given that we're a 4:1 dog in the tighest, worst, most conservative of circumstances, that extra bit of odds easily gets made up by the times you see AK/QQ or worse. If you disagree with this then there's nothing I can do to prove it.

As for the rest of the stuff...I want you to take a look at the 3bet range you provided. I don't even agree with that range, but we'll use it anyways. TT+, AJ+. We are even or ahead of the vast majority of that range...but yet you want to call and c/f? Do you not see how that's terrible?

There is also nothing that says AJ is going to stack off postflop, and I highly doubt that it's even close to the 3betting range.