Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

I still think you should lead the river here. You described your opponents as loose so they certainly could be in there with draws and may just fold to your river bet, however, you also described them as passive which means they may have made hands and are just calling down and hoping they have a winner, but may not bet the river. If you are lucky someone may have rivered a big hand and raise you since they certainly won't put you on a flush. There is no gaurantee that someone will bet the river nor is there a gaurantee were that bet will come from. I believe that absent any great reads betting out here will make you more money in the long run.

The rest of the hand was played well.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

I think everything is fine but the river (like most other posters). Your hand looks like a J, and it's not likely MP has a big J (no raise preflop), so he may check down a bad Jack. If he has a flush draw, he's not going to bet anyway, so your best bet to collect anything is to bet when OOP. If you get raised, even better.

The main problem with checking the river, is that there's probably a 50% chance nobody bets and it gets checked through. If you bet, I think your odds are higher that it will either get called or raised.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Against fairly passive and bad, I prefer to hit them over the head with a hammer, than to try to confuse them when they won't really be thinking all that much anyway. You didn't 3-bet the flop but then bet out on the turn when, if you were behind on the flop, you were still behind on the turn. While EP and MP's most likely hands are draws, who knows with these passive guys, I'd bet out on the river looking for as many calls as possible.

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andyfoxisright

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

One thing I neglected to mention in my original post is that passive and bad will often check a hand on the river when a 3rd suited card comes where they would crying call a bet. That's because checking is a safe play, whereas folding to a bet sacrifices the pot.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

The whole thing looks fine to me except (as others have said) the river check. However, while reading thru your post a couple of times, I started to get the sense that you felt that someone would bet the river for you. If that is why you were willing to chance it getting checked thru then good play in my book. I also think the river c/r is fine because it doesn't look like you're getting any overcalls.

Edit to add:

That's a very good point Andy is making. You've really got to have a strong feeling that someone will bet to try for that river c/r.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

This is a draw heavy flop. You may be against a straight and a flush draw. I would re-raise on the flop to get EP to drop with a gutshot if thats what he has. Also, if he calls its extra money while you are possibly/likely ahead.

The river, like everybody else I would bet out. Your flush is disguised by your previous flop and turn bets. You may get raised if indeed you were behind on the flop.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

Bleh.

Preflop is not just fine, it's correct given your description of the situation. On the flop I would 3bet, especially if you're going to donk that type of turn card. Either you think you're ahead or you don't. The turn card gives you outs but it doesn't put you in the lead.

Then on the river your check-raise is bizarre. First of all, there's a good chance it gets checked through, because that's what passive people do on rivers. And second, even if it does get bet it almost certainly isn't going to from the guy to your left, so you'll be checkraising out potential callers. One opponent for two bets isn't any better for you than two opponents for one bet.

You got pretty fancy in this pot, which isn't often a good thing when out of position against donkeys.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
passive and bad will often check a hand on the river when a 3rd suited card comes where they would crying call a bet. That's because checking is a safe play, whereas folding to a bet sacrifices the pot.

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This is wonderful advice...

I may make it to Commerce this w/e. Anybody going to be around?

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is not just fine, it's correct given your description of the situation.

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agreed, its a standard limp if the table conditions are right. In this case it sounds like its perfect.

Re: I make a lot of questionable decisions
 

One comment about my stop-n-go on the flop and turn: I was thinking if I 3-bet the flop, it would tie everyone to the pot, and anyway one pair wasn't a great holding on this highly coordinated flop -- therefore the draws have as much equity in this pot as I do (especially if the diamond draws have overcards). I thought if I waited to see the turn, I could slow down if a diamond, K, or 7 showed up, otherwise I could ramp back up and bet it if a safe card showed. Not 3-betting reduced the pot by 2BBs at least, making it unprofitable for gutshots to call the turn.