Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

The qualitative difference is in relationship. If you believe in a "relationship God" as opposed to a "random blessing God," it might not seem so unnatural to expect good things to happen when you jump through the correct hoops (whatever they may be -- maybe praying for xyz) that result in relationship with God.

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

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I think it is immoral that 99% of all people pretend that starving children means more to them than a lost wedding ring, when from all my observations of people this clearly isn't true.

And note that I'm not judging those who care more about their wedding ring, I'm being judgemental towards so many people having obvious double standards.

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I'd like to see some serious responses to this, because what tame_deuces suggests is undeniably right.

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

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I think it is immoral that 99% of all people pretend that starving children means more to them than a lost wedding ring, when from all my observations of people this clearly isn't true.

And note that I'm not judging those who care more about their wedding ring, I'm being judgemental towards so many people having obvious double standards.

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Put another way: if such a god is itself immoral, and those who believe in it are immoral, then OP is himself immoral, since obviously he is electing to fulfill all sorts of other trivial wishes instead of fixing the plight of those starving African children despite clearly seeing the moral problems with such an approach. Such a stringent definition of morality seems uninteresting to me because nobody satisfies it and thus it loses meaning.

EDIT:

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I'd like to see some serious responses to this, because what tame_deuces suggests is undeniably right.

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He is undeniably right. The internet (and this community in particular) just has a massive hard-on for attacking religion.

EDIT 2:

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I don't see how this is an appropriate analogy to my friend's belief, since there is a qualitative difference in your relation to your children and your relation to African orphans.

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Should this distinction carry any moral weight? That's far from clear. If it should, what is the compelling argument that we should be treated as God's children, as opposed to just viewing that as a metaphor?

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
The qualitative difference is in relationship. If you believe in a "relationship God" as opposed to a "random blessing God," it might not seem so unnatural to expect good things to happen when you jump through the correct hoops (whatever they may be -- maybe praying for xyz) that result in relationship with God.

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Yeah, I guess there are enough hidden premises in the idea of prayer that one can't easily extract what identity of God is implied.

I probably should have found a different way of posing my basic question...which was whether people think holding a belief can be immoral, if the belief is sufficiently depraved.

tame deuces's corollary comment is more interesting anyway.

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

I suppose it is possible if you believe God wasn't omnipotent and for some reason could only have limited intervention. But I'm not sure if you'd consider that to be God.

Or maybe Satan is answering the prayers. No, seriously. False miracles and temptations I suppose can be consistent with this.

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

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The internet (and this community in particular) just has a massive hard-on for attacking religion.

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Never woulda guessed that!!!

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think it is immoral that 99% of all people pretend that starving children means more to them than a lost wedding ring, when from all my observations of people this clearly isn't true.

And note that I'm not judging those who care more about their wedding ring, I'm being judgemental towards so many people having obvious double standards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see some serious responses to this, because what tame_deuces suggests is undeniably right.

[/ QUOTE ]
I deny its right, at least its a massive exaggeration. Most people would swap something like a wedding ring for an end to world hunger, hence they care more about world hunger than wedding rings. Also many people give far more towards good causes over their lifetime then they spend on wedding rings.

and most people don't pretend they would give up all their wealth to help the starving. Most people who claim to care about the starving etc will admit they only care enough to give up a proportion of what they have. So no double standard. (also a good thing imo as it would be a disaster otherwise)

chez

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The internet (and this community in particular) just has a massive hard-on for attacking religion.

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Never woulda guessed that!!!

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I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to be a crack at, i.e. what demographic or stereotype you are targeting. Is it that those who are able to turn on a computer are more likely to be critical of religion?

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

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I deny its right, at least its a massive exaggeration. Most people would swap something like a wedding ring for an end to world hunger, hence they care more about world hunger than wedding rings.

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Your counterargument is itself a massive exaggeration. He didn't say that people didn't want to end world hunger, but trading in a wedding ring could probably feed ten children or so for a year. I doubt most people are in a rush to do so.

I'd agree (as I suggested in my earlier post) that a morality based on all the good you're not doing doesn't really seem useful or tenable. But if we agree that that is the case, then I think arguing about the morals of some god is going to be awfully confusing if you're holding that god to a different moral standard than humans. Would it be human immoral to worship something that doesn't live up to god morality? It might still be way better than any human morality. And so on.

Re: Is it immoral to believe in anecdotal \"answered prayer?\"
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think it is immoral that 99% of all people pretend that starving children means more to them than a lost wedding ring, when from all my observations of people this clearly isn't true.

And note that I'm not judging those who care more about their wedding ring, I'm being judgemental towards so many people having obvious double standards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see some serious responses to this, because what tame_deuces suggests is undeniably right.

[/ QUOTE ]
I deny its right, at least its a massive exaggeration. Most people would swap something like a wedding ring for an end to world hunger, hence they care more about world hunger than wedding rings. Also many people give far more towards good causes over their lifetime then they spend on wedding rings.

and most people don't pretend they would give up all their wealth to help the starving. Most people who claim to care about the starving etc will admit they only care enough to give up a proportion of what they have. So no double standard. (also a good thing imo as it would be a disaster otherwise)

chez

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Just because they'd give up their wedding ring to "end world hunger" when its put to them in those stark terms doesn't mean that their actions indicate far different priorities. Many people would say a lot of things, and many people would act in a certain way when put under the spotlight, but its their actions when no one is looking that reveal true priorities, IMO.